Franconia Beer Message Board

Post new message
Unthreaded View (Date Order) Calendar of Bamberg Visits
View the archive back to day 1 of the board. How to get there Wiki
A RSS feed of the last 20 posts Search

 Bamberg Visit by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-15 06:21:53

First Brisbane in Feb/March, then Ebensfeld/Bamberg, Apr 21 to May 9 (my big day!).  Just in time for Bamberg Tag des ieres - couldn't miss it!

Hope to be able to sort out joint visit to Spielbach with whoever is there and willing to go - oh and also has a car, horse and cart or any other suitable transport.

   Bamberg Visit by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-15 06:57:16

We’ll be ther for a few days (2nd to 6th) as you know but most likely won’t be up for the excursion out to Spielbach since it’s a short visit. We won’t have a car at any rate. Sorry to be non helpful.  But I’m sure we’ll get plenty of hangout time with you at a more local brewery or three. 

     Bamberg Visit by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-15 09:30:25

Sure thing, we'll see what happens.

Post is less than 24 hours old    Bamberg Visit by  Andrew H on  2019-01-16 08:36:30

Who's going to be about for the tag des bieres? Without going into frightful medical details, I have been out of the loop. But will I hope be up for a visit early may.

Post is less than 24 hours old      Bamberg Visit by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-16 12:06:18

We're not going to make it in time for tag des bieres but will be there first week of May.  Hope to see you there Andy.

 Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-08 04:07:17

Some thoughts on the 1 seidla I had on Saturday evening, poured from keg as the wooden barrel had finished. 

Initial impressions were 2 fold: Firstly, it could well be the Schwarzla brewed with rauchmalt. The colour is very dark, darker than Schlenkerla, and there is quite a lot of roastiness. Secondly, it tasted like a watered down version of Schlenkerla, and not in a bad way, although at 5.3% it is a little thin, like the Schwarzla. It was unfiltered due to the issues sing the filtering equipment as it would taint their other beers. Definitely different from other versions brewed by Huppendorf or Weiher, and I was mildly impressed, though others weren't convinced. But then they were going into far too much analysis - would i have had another? Yes. 

Interestingly, Matthias Trum of Heller may have something to say about the whole affair. Apparently, Spezial and Heller have a trademark on the term 'Bamberger Rauchbier' and whilst I know Spezial won't really care either way, due to proximity and the nature of Schlenkerla's worldwide fame, I think Herr Trum will be put out by this. I think it's a gentleman's agreement more than anything - I'm not sure I agree with having a monooly on a term like 'Bamberger Rauchbier' - it should be like any other AOC - if it's brewed in the city it's Bamberger. But I'm not familiar enough with the facts to pass comment. 

The next Bamberg beer war? I think not. 

   Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2019-01-08 06:11:30

The brewery Meusel has offered a "Bamberger Rauchbier" some years ago.
After an intervention of the Bamberger Brauereien e.V. Meusel has changed the name to "Bamberger Landrauchbier". 

The opinion of the Bamberger breweries is that Bamberg means the city of Bamberg without the Landkreis Bamberg (Bamberg country). They try to safe the geographical name Bamberg for their beers..

The previos Klosterbräu was not a member of the society Bamberger Brauereien, but the Kaiserdom brewery was a member and now the new Klosterbräu is  also a member. 

     Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  TomM on  2019-01-08 08:25:14


Do you know if this is meant to be a seasonal beer like Greifenklau's or a year round thing?

I would guess they are using Weyermann's rauchmalz. Certainly not doing their own malting like Schlenkerla and Spezial.

I wonder if Klosterbraue was a rauchbier brewery in the distant past?

       Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-09 02:48:16

I'm not sure if they intend to sell year round or seasonally. I can ask a friend but they may use Bamberger Malzerei malt - the malt of choice for most local breweries. 

They have never brewed a rauchbier before according to the brewery itself. At least not one that was called ' rauchbier' i.e. intentionally. 

       Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  AndyH on  2019-01-09 02:48:54

Interesting, when do Greifenklau produce/sell their Rauchbier?

I suppose all breweries were Rauchbier breweries in the past, before 'modern' malt drying technology. Although it's likely that the result was more subtle than modern deliberately smoked beer.

   Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Barm on  2019-01-09 02:44:15

Didn’t Kaiserdom have their own Rauchbier in the past?
Also, Schlenkerla doesn’t even call itself Bamberger Rauchbier on its own label.

     Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-09 02:52:20

Well the point is not necessarily for themselves, more to stop others from using it. Given that Schlenkerla and Spezial are very much rauchbier breweries itself almost synonymous. It's the same with Mahrs U (although Spezials is older), Keesmann Herren Pils, Fassla Lager, Klosterbrau Braunbier... the idea that they all have a certain speciality. Greifenklau's rauchbier is called 'R' - they towed the line. 

       Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Barm on  2019-01-09 03:04:47

I can’t find a trademark with a quick search on The old Bamberger Löwenbräu had a trademark on its label but that was deleted in 1997. Someone tried to trademark Rauchbier-Schinken, Rauchbier-Currywurst and Rauchbier-Glühwein at various times, but none of those are valid now.

The only “geografische Herkunftsangabe” referring to Bamberg is for Bamberger Hörnla (the potatoes not the croissants).

         Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  TomM on  2019-01-09 03:29:11

Greifenklau's rauchbier is available in May. I had it once way back in 2012 or 2013. It was mildly smoky.

I was aware of the other Bamberg maltster, but I checked their product list and they have no rauchmalz.

Yes, Kaiserdom used to have a rauchbier:

         Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  Jason  on  2019-01-09 03:48:54

I was talking to Florian Merz and he told me about this. Obviously I haven't checked, I assumed he was probably a good source of info. 

I wasn't really convinced you can trademark something like 'Bamberger Rauchbier'. I think it could well be more of a gentlman's agreeement. 

     Klosterbrau Rauchbier  by  FredW on  2019-01-09 08:03:07

The Kaiserdom Rauchbier of old was brewed by Schlenkerla. I once came a cross a really old bottle in a store in LA, I bought it and took it to Matthias Trum as a joke. He said "Ah yes, we used to brew that for them..."

The bottles we used to get were really bad -- old and skunked -- that when the idea of a trip to Bamberg came up (1999) I was a little resistant because of how bad that beer was :)

 Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-07 14:28:45

Really bad news: Ryanair seems to have dropped Manchester to Nuremburg flights after March 2019 and also, possibly, Liverpool to Prague flights.  I'm anxiously awaiting the revised summer timetables but it isn't looking too good.

Looks like Easyjet to Munich is the best option, as I'd really like to avoid Frankfurt.  I suppose that it was too good to last (Seidla half empty).

   Travel to Franken by  Uncle Jimbo on  2019-01-07 19:53:29

Bummer, Barry.  I hope you find an alternative.

     Travel to Franken by  Barry on  2019-01-08 01:56:25

Thanks Jimbo, it's annoying but small beer when I think of the time and expense that you chaps in the USA have in getting to Bamberg. The good news is that my potential fare to Brisbane has halved since December and that negative results for medical conditions allow me to get travel insurance (necessary for Aussie visits). Win some, lose some.

       Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-10 08:35:46

The frustrating part re: coming from the US is that because of the time and expense that it takes we have to be selective on when and for how long we go.  It's not like I can decide on a Tuesday that I'm going to take a quick flight over for a long weekend because I want to be there for bock beer release x, or such and such festival, or I just feel like getting away for a few days to do some beer hiking.  If I lived in the UK, for example, I'd probably be a lot more inclined to visit more frequently but for shorter periods of time and could be more spur of the moment about it.  I know ... pity, poor me.  First world problems and so on ....  Try not to shed a tear.  I'll be okay I promise.

Bitching aside, I am fortunate I get to do it at all let along more than once a year (on most years) and I've got a direct flight options from Boston that are shorter than pretty much anywhere else from the US.  But it still requires a fair amount advanced planning, carving out vacation time, more money, and a lot time pondering and prioritizing if this year I would rather be there for bock season, keller season, spring time and the festivals going on then, Annafest, Canalissimo, etc. etc.  This year keller season, Annafest, and Canalissimo have won out so I'll be there in July for 2 weeks.  There just too much to do over there!!

Accumulating mileage points with an airline helps.  I'm at least getting a free Lufthansa flight every other year.  Like this year.

     Travel to Franken by  Gunnar H on  2019-01-08 02:24:03

Barry maybe the time has come for you to explore the wonderful world of European rail travel. You would of course need an overnight stay in Chester or London, but 70 Euro will take you all the way from London to Bamberg without any airport hassles. All the wonderful views while DB whisks you through the countryside are free. A lunch in the restaurant car is not free but well worth it. Give it a try sometime.

       Travel to Franken by  Jason  on  2019-01-08 03:58:50

I would second this. As a retired gent you have the flexibility and time, plus you can always stop off in Koeln or Duesseldorf. Look into the DB 25 railcard, it costs 60EUR per year and gives you 25% off travel on ALL trains (except the VGN area, annoyingly). 

In Jersey I had to take flights to London, overnight and then take a morning flight to Munich - the east coast Americans on here have a shorter journey time than I used to, and it was possibly cheaper. 

Sure it was convenient but every door shutting opens another ;) 

*Seidla half full 

       Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-08 08:20:50

Always willing to try something new and I like trains more than aeroplanes.  Can you point to me where I can find a €70 fare please?  DB quote some ridiculous fare.  In the meantime, I'll take a look at the Seat 61!

         Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-08 08:39:00

Cheapest on Seat 61 is London to Bamberg €129 single - that's a lot of bier!

           Travel to Franken by  Johnratcliffe on  2019-01-08 20:23:36

There used to be a special fare on the DB website called London-Germany or something similar. My beer buddy did it a couple of times for €49 each way. However, he had to take the Eurostar at around 6am. Not much use if you are coming from North Wales, unless you have somewhere to stay in London. Coming back, the times were easier. I could have actually made it back up to Newcastle the same day. 
Shame about Ryanair,only took the Manchester flight once,seemed pretty full. Times are horrible flying out of Stansted.

             Travel to Franken by  Barm on  2019-01-09 02:50:20

The beer at the microbrewery in Munich Airport is usually OK, it’s the 45 minute trek into the city centre on the S-Bahn that’s a chore. If you have the time, an overnight in Munich is pleasant enough, if you can push to the back of your mind that in Franken you’d be paying half as much for better beer ;)

               Travel to Franken by  AndyH on  2019-01-09 02:58:39

If overnighting in Munich, Weihenstephan might be a better bet than the city centre, it's a lot closer to the airport.

                 Travel to Franken by  Doug on  2019-01-09 11:57:00

Try Gasthof Lerner in Freising.  If still available it is very close to brewery. 

                   Travel to Franken by  Carl on  2019-01-12 20:03:55

I usually stay in Freising the night before my flight out of Munich to the US.
I've always stayed in the Bayerischer Hof.
Prices aren't bad, and it's right in the middle of town, and is a nice place.
Usually busy, but I've been able to call on the same day and get a room.
If there's more than one of you, ask for room 321, and if it's available, they'll probably give it to you.  Top floor, multiple rooms.
Fairly easy walk (easier bus) to Weihenstephan, or to Hofbrauhaus Freising.
(I'm not sure if the Hofbrauhaus has a taproom, but the beer is served in the small pub next door.)
I/we normally take a cab to the airport, although I think a bus is available.

                     Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-13 04:22:03

There is a direct bus to the airport and unlike the cab, it is free (I've used it for years and never paid nor was never asked to pay).

                     Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 05:27:22

Another decent option is staying in Regensburg the night before.  My wife and I are doing that in May.  Our flight isn't until 15:50 though.  I noticed this morning looking on the DB website that there is a regional train that goes direct to the airport from Regensburg and takes 1 hour 18 minutes.  I don't know if an RE train going direct to the airport is a new thing or not?  I assumed you'd have to get off in Freising and take Bus 635 over to the terminal but it seems the bus isn't necessary.

                       Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 05:34:11

And yes that RE line also stops in Freising so you could take that instead of the bus.  It's a few minutes faster. 

                         Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-13 05:45:12

That's complete nonesense. According to your earlier message the train takes one hour and 18 minutes. The bus takes 21 minutes from Freising. Also you need to pay for the train, but not for the bus.

                           Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 06:06:46

Your reading comprehension sucks.  Obviously I meant that the train from Freising to the airport is a little quicker than the bus from Freising to the airport.  About 4 minutes according to the DB website.  But yes you are probably right that you need to pay for the train.  I just thought it interesting that this option now exists.

But way to look for an argument where none exists.  Typical Mike.

                             Travel to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2019-01-13 06:42:10

Now, now.  Please, just give the sage advice that this site is famous for.

As it happens, my flight gets in at 16,30, which gives me enough time to get to Bamberg (or wherever).  I'm not fussed about Freising, etc. and have been to Regensburg (once was enough to everything).

So, thanks for all the ideas, always appreciated.

                             Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-13 09:15:18

No. You talked about staying in Regensburg and going to the Munich airport from there, not from Freising. Secondly, according to Wikipedia, ( the train from Regensburg goes to the airport every two hours. The bus, OTOH, leaves about every 25 minutes. Regensburg is a nice city, but so is Freising which also has some nice beer opportunities.

I've always stayed in Freising and thoroughly enjoyed it.

                               Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-13 09:40:28

Meh I was about to type a longer reply to this but it just isn't worth it.  Life's too short to allow oneself to be drawn into stupid and pointless arguments.  My posts were pretty clear.  You have to be intentionally obtuse to misinterpret them.

I'm sure Freising is every bit as lovely as Regensburrg.  We're lucky to have options.


                                 Travel to Franken by  Jason  on  2019-01-13 11:34:30

Whilst Freising is pleasant enough, it’s a convenience stop rather than a visit in own right. But  Regensburg has much more to offer, including on the beer front - Kneitinger is a classic for starters. The area around is very beautiful and also chock full of breweries. 


                                 Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-14 00:02:42

I'd really appreciate it if we could have an adult discussion without the personal insults.

                                   Travel to Franken by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-14 04:53:23

If you would like to have an adult discussion then I suggest in the future you ask for clarification when you misunderstand somebodys post or think you disagree with them.  Leading off with "That's complete nonense" in a reply to a post that you completely misunderstood is not conducive to polite conversation.  If you cannot understand this then I cannot help you.

                                     Travel to Franken by  Jason on  2019-01-15 00:48:51


                                 Travel to Franken by  Mike on  2019-01-14 04:21:38

If time is a consideration, you might stay in Munich. You could buy an Airport-City-Ticket (€13) which would give you a full day in Munich on public transport and then take you too the airport. After the day in Munich, you'd have until six hours of the next day to go to the airport. I think it's a no-brainer if you spend the day traveling around the city.

                               Travel to Franken by  Andrew H on  2019-01-14 05:02:10

Interesting, I had never thought of using Wikipedia to plan journeys in Franconia/Bavaria. I have been using Bayern fahrplan and the VGN planner.Doh! What a dope I've been.

                               Regensburg to Munich Airport by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-14 06:48:06

BTW, for what it's worth, the train from Regensburg to Munich Airport goes every hour not every two hours as Wikipedia suggests.  This according to DB's website.


           Travel to Franken by  Gunnar H on  2019-01-09 03:10:39

That's the 1st class Sparpreis. But as always with Sparpreis tickets, you will have to shop around various dates to find the best fare. I picked a random date in May and was offered the low fare on a connection including the direct Frankfurt-Bamberg RE. BahnCard gives you a further discount even on Sparpreise. The Saver Fare Finder on the site will find the best fare per date - apparently now starting at 69.90 €.

         Travel to Franken by  AndyH on  2019-01-09 03:01:37

Euostar have a sale on at the moment. Selected departures between London and Brussels or Paris are £29 each way.

The biggest issue might be the cost of getting from the North West of England to London.

           Travel to Franken by  Johnratcliffe on  2019-01-09 07:18:39

Getting £63 for London-Bamberg for random dates in May/June. This is on 

 Sepp Schmidt of Kathi-Bräu dies  by  Barm on  2019-01-03 07:25:38

Josef “Sepp” Schmidt, the owner of Kathi-Bräu, died on 22nd December at the age of 80.

Can't find a source other than this post on Facebook, unfortunately.

   Sepp Schmidt of Kathi-Bräu dies  by  Jason  on  2019-01-03 09:48:46

The long and short of it is that the family will decide whether they will continue the brewery (with the son) or not. 

 Wolframs-Bräu, Wolframs-Eschenbach by  Jürgen Wening on  2019-01-03 06:19:07

Bought beer at the fabulous new little brewery at Wolframs-Eschenbach which is run by the former owner of Brauerei Rothenburg, Andreas Falk. Very good stuff. At the moment there's unfiltrated Kellerbier for sale (top fermented!) but soon the first Pils will also be available.

 Rauchbier at Klosterbrau by  Mark Andersen on  2019-01-02 05:50:45

I just saw on their FB page that Klosterbrau is releasing a Rauchbier to be served from the barrel on Jan. 5th and 6th.  I'm very curious to hear how this turns out.  Jason, I don't know if you're back from Jersey in time to try this?

   Rauchbier at Klosterbrau by  Jason on  2019-01-02 05:59:32

Well spotted Mark, I had heard it was coming but good to know exactly when. I am back in Bamberg and will have a try either Saturday or more likely Sunday which is stärkantrinken in Bamberg. We have to drink a beer for every month in 2019 for luck. Strictly speaking bock Bier, but I’m afraid that’s not going to happen. 

10am start in Spezi - will head to Klosterbrau at some point and let you know. 

 Prost Neujahr! by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-31 09:31:49

Thought that you might like this from my friend Norbert in deepest Eschawo!

Wo der Stern den Weg uns weist...
...und uralter Kommunbraugeist
des echten Zoigls Herkunft speist,
folgt man der Tradition im Kern
und dem Stern nochmal so gern.

   Prost Neujahr! by  JP on  2018-12-31 11:10:33

Prost, alles Gute and greatest luck for the ride into another unknown!

And THANKS for the help earlier this month. Returned some days ago from 11 days in Franconia and looking to go back around mid February. I've drank somewhat too many beers, yet I enjoyed each one in great company!

 Yuletide and 2019 by  Barry on  2018-12-23 09:04:24

To wish all my friends and fellow forummers a very jolly Yuletide and a happy and peaceful 2019. Here's hoping for many meetings in Franken and many Seidlas!

   Yuletide and 2019 by  Jason on  2018-12-23 11:56:45

Thanks Barry, same to you! I have the feeling ‘many meetings and many seidlas’ is not in any doubt my end. 

Tomorrow I head to Brittany by train with a 10litre barrel of fest bier from Kaiser in Grasmannsdorf, a 5 litre barrel of Spezi Lager and 2 bottles of Herren Pils. It’s almost starting to sound like new lyrics for the 12 days of Christmas. The walking part of the transfer from Paris Est to Paris montparnasse stations will be a challenge. 

     Yuletide and 2019 by  Barry on  2018-12-24 01:07:57

Wow, I thought you must be going by car until I read the last bit! Hope that it all went well - taxi?

   Yuletide and 2019 by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-24 04:42:32

Same to you Barry.

Looking forward to getting back to Franken next year.  Late July is a definite at this point.  Possibly May.

 Christmas visits by  Mads Klinkby on  2018-12-19 11:55:13

My yearly christmas escapades will unfold from 27-30 dec. at following venues:

Sternbrau schlusselfeld (New)

These below I have mailed without any answers. Do any of you guys know what they normally do between christmas and N.Y.?:

Lowenbrau Buttenheim
Hummel Merkendorf
Hohn Memmelsdorf (Really wanna try their heller bock)
Will schederndorf
Hubner wattendorf.

  Cheers, Mads

   Christmas visits by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-19 12:22:38

Well you won't get a reply from Krug in Geisfeld.  They are closed permanently due to illness as of about a month or two ago.

   Christmas visits by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-12-20 00:05:02

Brauerei Hummel is open. They offer

Löwenbräu Buttenheim has closed

No information about Höhn in Memmelsdorf, but I believe they have a big hotel the restaurant will be open.

     Christmas visits by  Mads on  2018-12-20 22:37:02

Thanks a lot Gerhard.


 Brauerei Reuter closed by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-19 03:14:18

Very, very, very, very, very sad news! Brauerei Reuter in Unternbibert stopped brewing at the beginning of December. That means: A fully workable ancient brewery with coolship etc. was closed. The amber coloured Vollbier was very special and unbelievably good, if drunk fast enough not to go bad... that also means, another one in my region is gone. The Wirtshaus at Unternbibert serves Hofmühl now. Gosh.

   Brauerei Reuter closed by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-19 06:54:59

I just phoned them up but could only get hold of the blabla machine. It says, the brewery will be modernised and rebuilt. So, hopefully, we'll get Unternbiberter Bier again in the not so distant future. 

 Stachelbier  by  Jason  on  2018-12-13 08:00:26

I have decided to take a trip to the mountains tomorrow, staying in the excellent Bürgerbräu Bad Reichenhall. It's been snowing the last few days and the forecast is to be sunny so Saturday will see some 'winter wandern'.

First stop tomorrow though (or rather second stop as I'll have a beer in Traunstein) will be Augustiner Brau Salzburg. Right now they have their bockbier which I have never tried and their very seasonal (4 days) Stachelbier which is also new to me. The latter is their maerzen beer, I think a 33cl served in a 50cl glass, and a red hot poker is inserted for a few seconds into the beer (yes, the beer). The result is a maltier, caramalised beer which I reckon is a similar, much less labour intensive, alternative to steinbier. Any residual sugars in the beer caramalise. Whilst the beer is warmed it is only a slight change, so don't confuse this with Glühbier (or the beer warmers in Franken, which are definitely not the same). 

I can quite happily sit on one of the many beerhalls and drink just their maerzen, so having a choice of 3 beers will be a treat. I will report back tomorrow - maybe someone has had stachelbier somewhere? 

   Stachelbier  by  TreinJan on  2018-12-13 11:22:35

Lahnsteiner Bock, at the Festival der Bierkulturen in Köln, a few years back. Liked it (but liked the original as well).

   Stachelbier  by  TomM on  2018-12-14 14:40:32

I lived in Minnesota in the early 90's. Every February, the August Schell Brewery in New Ulm held an outdoor Bock Fest. They would put a red hot poker into your bock beer if you wanted. I didn't know that it was a traditional thing from the old country. It's very cold in Minnesota in the winter. A warm, malty beer was very nice!

     Stachelbier  by  Jason on  2018-12-15 09:57:56

I think everything comes from ‘the old country’. Or at least most innovations have been dove before. I should say the beer shouldn’t be warm... just the head is warmed. 

I enjoyed a couple of these yesterday. It was the Bockbier they used which makes sense. As expected the beer was maltier and somewhat caramelised (in a subtle way) but also the bitterness was extenuated. Anyone who cooks with beer knows that happens. 

The regular bock was less bitter - a fantastic drop I must say, much better than most Bamberg bocks, benefitting from a rich malt body and not  at all sweet. Augustiner remains one of the finest drinking establishments in the world. I’m going back now for round 2. 

       Stachelbier  by  Mike on  2018-12-17 02:37:42

Was that Augustiner in Salzburg? If so, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

         Stachelbier  by  Jason  on  2018-12-17 06:04:57

Yes indeed. I spent 3 very pleasant evenings there and on the 3rd night shared a table coincidentily with a group of Franconians from Erlangen area who spend every 3rd Advent there. They invited me on their fast train back and also to come along next year. 

Gave me an extra hour of drinking - bonus!

       Stachelbier  by  AndyH on  2018-12-17 04:20:02

Augustiner salzburg is amazing!

Brauhaus Gusswerk, near salzburg, makes a Steinbier.

   Stachelbier  by  Andrew H on  2018-12-19 07:46:50

It sounds a great trip, I am very envious. Enjoy! Young man.

   Stachelbier  by  Andrew H on  2018-12-19 07:46:50

It sounds a great trip, I am very envious. Enjoy! Young man.

 FeWo recommendations by  Carl on  2018-12-11 20:17:08

My wife and I are thinking about a month in Bamberg, maybe starting in mid-September 2019 until mid-October.
Could I get some lodging suggestions?
I think Barry has a place East of the Bahnhof he likes, but I couldn't find it for some reason.
Would consider a second bedroom if not too much more, for potential visitors.
I've been to Bamberg on bier trips at least six times, so this is not an uninformed thought!

Thanks !

[ What ever happened to the place just across the street from Klosterbräu?
It appeared it was a very reasonably priced hotel, but it was not available (undergoing renovation?) in 2018.) ]


   FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-12 00:37:26

Weve stayed here for the last 8 or so years. Just behind the Fassla. Both fewos are 2 bedroom, downstairs one is a bit nicer. Lovely hosts. 

Ive also stayed at fewo Albert. I believe a number of forum members have used this one. 

   FeWo recommendations by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-12-12 03:12:06

As a local I have not personal experience, but guests of the Café Abseits have recommended:
east of the Bahnhof.

   FeWo recommendations by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-12 09:24:23

I had to think where east of the bahnhof is!  To be honest, I rarely stay in Bamberg now - in November, I stayed in Frank's place by Sandstrasse, which is very convenient for Schlenkerla and the city in general.  Other than that, I can't remember the last time I stayed in the town, preferring to stay in the little towns that dot Franken, specially ones near the rail line.  It's so easy to get into town from that situation and it's much cheaper.

Bamberg isn't really a late night destination (for me anyway, others may differ!) and the trains run fairly late.  

     FeWo recommendations by  Jason  on  2018-12-13 01:54:22

Have to disagree here. There is very little appeal for people who want to visit Bamberg to stay in the stix. Bamberg IS a late night destination (others certainly will differ) and by contrast, life in the villages shuts down at 10pm latest. Even when here you're a rare visitor to Bamberg - constantly shuttling back and forth with trains isn't going to appeal to most visitors who do wish to visit most days. Plus if I really wanted to save money I probably wouldn't go on holiday in the first place. 

I know it suits your lifestyle, budget and preferences, but you know that they are not going to be shared by most visitors. 

       FeWo recommendations by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-13 04:41:02

Barry, I can't help but think that you meant to say that you're not a late night person rather than Bamberg is not a late night destination.  Because the latter certainly is not true and that's been well chronicled on this forum over the years.  In fact, over the years since I've been visiting Bamberg has only grown as a late night destination with more late night bars than ever before.  It's even gained some renown for it's cocktail bars not just beer.  Not that I care much about that but other visitors (like my friend Ingmar) and plenty of locals seem to dig it.  

Anyhow it remains for me the best base of operations in Franken and I don't see that changing anytime soon.  There is plenty to do at night even after the breweries closed for those that want to carry on with plenty of good beer to be had.  Rotenschild, Catwheezle, Stohrenkeller, Am Galerie, Torschuster, Der Pelikan, Der Schwarze Shapf, the place with the burgers, places that Jason has shown me that I can't remember the name but could find in a fog, and on and on and on.


         FeWo recommendations by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-13 04:42:15

.... and forgot to mention but should have Cafe Abseits.

           FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-13 08:50:46

Personally, Id always stay in Bamberg, but then Im a city guy. What I love is a hard day out in the wilds of Franconia, then a couple of nightcaps somewhere in Bamberg. 

     FeWo recommendations by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-13 09:49:15

I think that I'm being tracked by the Bamberg Tourism Politzei - I'm going to be careful going to the Red Lion on this dark night.

I think that you chaps seem to have missed my rider:

 for me anyway, others may differ!

I put that in because I knew that world would descend on my poor head   I'm really surprised at your comment, Mark, you must recall my last really late night in Bamberg?  (All day hike, Memmelsdorf Strassefest, Catweazle, carried home, Judenstrasse, nasty wooden staircase, blood pouring from shin - oh no, you were fast asleep on the couch by that time!).  Not to mention Rotenschild a few weeks ago, Jason, earnest 'discussions' about basket ball, etc.

Happy really to leave it to the youth!


       FeWo recommendations by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-13 11:14:57

Too funny.

Well I'm glad you lived to tell the tale Barry.  I thought I would need a cattle prod to wake you (and Bill actually) the next morning errr I mean afternoon.  

Enjoy the Red Lion.  

         FeWo recommendations by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-14 05:04:55

Thanks but only just survived.  Moral of the story: don't try to compete with the 'big' boys - day or night!

It was as excellent as usual, with 'Old Trip' in good form.. Howeverr, we started with a couple in my new local 'The Black Cloak', which Maps tell me is 450 feet (120 meteres?) from my front door.  Too near for safety.  They've got a cute little one barrel mini-brewery in which they brew their standard session pale ale at 3.7% but very nice and tasty.  Then two more handpumps, which usually feature Heavy Industry beer (that's where the owners come from).  My US-friends would feel at home because it's really designed like a minature US-pub with a wall full of keg taps - looks quite ornate, even if I won't be trying them!

They also brew a bright beer i.e. fermetned and then stored in tanks under CO2 - not filtered and strong enough at 5.7%.  I tried a sample and it was quite tasty but oh so fizzy!  The decour is unfussy but pleasant and the owners are very friendly and chatty.  An excellent acquisition for the Bay and Colwyn's East End.

     FeWo recommendations by  Carl on  2018-12-17 07:51:08

Thanks for the recommendations !

Barry, I may have recalled your name in error; I know someone was talking about  a place near a church East of the Bahnhof!  I think it's the one Gerhard mentioned in this thread (St. Henry's Corner).


       FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-17 09:42:16

Is that out in Wunderberg? Or is my sense of direction completely shot?

         FeWo recommendations by  Carl on  2018-12-17 09:51:00

It's about 700 meters NE of the Bahnhof (isn't Wunderberg down by Mahr's?).

           FeWo recommendations by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-18 01:11:20

Yes, so in the opposite direction to Wunderberg(where there is a big church). Guess there are plenty of churches in Bamberg!

       FeWo recommendations by  gavin on  2018-12-17 22:45:37

hey carl, i was the one to recommend this great place , have been a very regular visiter to this fewo since 2006. Have become great friends with the owners, they are wonderful people. please give then a call with any questions they speak perfect english.

 Very good news - new brewery! by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-03 01:55:06

Andreas Falk, formerly owner of Brauhaus Rothenburg o. d. T., has opened a new brewery plus Wirtshaus in Wolframs-Eschenbach, just 8 km away from my home village. It's called Wolframs-Bräu. I'm going to visit it this week and will write a short report.

A new one in Mittelfranken - that's just great! 

   Very good news - new brewery! by  Jason  on  2018-12-03 02:33:11

Very good news indeed Juergen! Especially the Wirtshaus, that's an exception. Look forward to hearing the report and will try and get down there soon if it's positive!

     Very good news - new brewery! by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 02:49:40

Oh goody, another one to view.  Hope it's better than the other Wolfram (Eschawo)!

       Very good news - new brewery! by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-03 03:35:15

I guess the beers will be similar to those formerly brewed in Rothenburg. And they were fine! Well, and the Central Franconian Wolframs-Eschenbach is the birthplace of the famous medieval minnesinger Wolfram von Eschenbach. Yes, he was Franconian, too! 

         Very good news - new brewery! by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 05:54:33

Wasn't every great historical figure from Franconia? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seriously, I've just looked the place up on Google maps and scanned through the photo's.  Suddenly, I feel an attack of memory coming on!  Didn't we go through there on that day out when we went down to Wettelsheimer Keller? 


           Very good news - new brewery! by  pivnizub on  2018-12-03 09:19:31

There was 'til 2005 a brewery called  "Gentner-Bräu" in Wolframs-Eschenbach... Does anybody know, if the old brewery will be "reanimated" now?

             Very good news - new brewery! by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-04 00:58:29

It won't. The building's still there but with a huge hole in the wall where the equipment was brought out. 

 Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-12-02 02:16:16

Yesterday morning I had the oportunity to visit Löwenbräu in Buttenhiem. It's been years since i've been in the tap. The beer was fine, better than I've had it outside the tap but still there are many better examples. 

St. Georgen Brau pub is closed until they find a new tenant. 

Today i'm going to Brauerei Martin in Schonungen. One of those much better than Löwenbräu. 

   Buttenheim by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-12-03 01:52:03

Martin in Schonungen is great. Have a Spezial on me, please!

     Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-12-03 02:34:45

I did indeed, very nice dunkler doppelbock too. 

The beer garden in summer is one of the nicest anywhere - this brewery comes highly recommended with good train/bus (or walk) connections. 

       Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 02:53:10

Does this hide under another name/place, as I can't find it in the directory?  Maybe I'm just being a bit thick (no comments please).

         Brauerei Martin by  moleha4 on  2018-12-03 03:30:31

Brauerei Martin is listed under Hausen-Schonungen.

           Brauerei Martin by  Barry Taylor on  2018-12-03 05:59:06

Gosh, I've even been there - with Juergen, of course!

I'm going to have to ry to list where I've been and not been - getting confused in my dotage.

       Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Barm on  2018-12-03 02:58:01

Good train/bus connections? I must have missed those. One bus every hour and a half or something, isn’t it?
Is there a bigger beer garden out the back? I have only been in the Stube.

         Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason  on  2018-12-03 03:17:03

Yes, you must have. Train/Bus connections every hour and the two are connected so the journey time is 1hr - 1hr10. In Franconia, that's generally a good connection, particularly when you're on holiday and you're flexible. 

If you look at the images on their website you'll see the garden at the back. 

         Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Mike on  2018-12-03 04:24:21

Look at bus line 71. Seems to run more often.

           Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-04 05:02:37

Is this out of the range of the VGN? Surely doesnt extend as far out as Schweinfurt?

             Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  TreinJan on  2018-12-04 05:17:04

The last station on that line in the VGN is Oberhaid. You could use a Bayern-ticket.

               Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-04 07:03:58

Thanks Jan, thought it was out of range. 

                 Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason  on  2018-12-05 01:15:33

Not 'out of range' John :) There is something called the 'Franken Hopper Ticket' actually which makes the return journey cheaper, c. EUR11,80 for 1 return or EUR23,60 for 2 return. Of course this doesn't include the bus so a Bayern ticket is probably more convenient and you can visit Goeller in Zeil (and Oberhaid!!!)f you wish or get the Bayern Karte on the Saturday and then use for something else on the Sunday.

You're well aware of all the options so not sure why i'm giving you the detail, but I recommend a visit in any case, especially in good weather. 

                   Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-05 01:25:43

Hi Jason,
   Didnt know about the 'Franken Hopper', though as you say, the weekend Bayern Ticket would be better. Suppose Ill have to go to Oberhaid one day.....

                     Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason  on  2018-12-05 03:45:17

No... you really don't. Although JUST in case it's improved I'd rather someone else took one for the team than me. I've done my time. 

Though I've heard Mark and Andrew are fans...

                       Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-05 11:01:09

Andy is a much bigger fan of Oberhaid than me.  He even drank my seidla before I had a chance to savor it.

                     Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Mark Andersen on  2018-12-05 11:02:40

John if you do go to Oberhaid I recommend watching the movie Deliverance first to get you in the mood.

                   Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  TreinJan on  2018-12-05 03:39:51

BayernTicket weekend?

                     Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 04:21:20

Possibly means the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket?

The only difference in the 
Länder-Ticket at the weekend is that you can travel before 9am (AFAIK).

                       Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  TreinJan on  2018-12-05 05:00:25

SWT is also a one day ticket (saturday OR sunday). Maybe the confusion is with the VGN Tageskarte.

                         Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 06:05:18


                           Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-12-05 08:04:05

S-W ticket is for the whole country is it not? Only on regional trains, of course and is for Saturday OR Sunday, but not both. Same with Bayern ticket, but just Bayern. VGN weekend ticket is Saturday and Sunday. Fantastic value.

                             Brauerei Ulrich Martin, Schonungen: (was: Buttenheim) by  Jason on  2018-12-06 05:28:56

Correct, my mistake getting them muddled up. 

 Klosterbraue  by  Jason  on  2018-11-23 04:41:56

I refer to our estemmed colleague Barry's comments regarding his Braunbier at Klosterbraeu a few weeks ago. I don't dispute his experience, just reflecting my own. 

I did the underground Keller tour in Bamberg last week, under the Stephensberg. It was interesting if a little boring when you already know a lot of the beer history (it was focussed on the Bamberg brewing tradition). Anyway, afterwards we went to eat at Klosterbraue. The Croatian Igor was behind the taps and as usual his tapping was exemplary. The Kellerbier was very very good, as was the bockbier. Overall a very positive drinking experience. 

I was talking with Florian Merz on Wednesday and he said that all the beers are brewed at Klosterbrau... he asked the brewer himself. I've heard equally credible opinions to the contrary so I'm none the wiser really. 

Finally, yesterday a friend had A NEW RAUCHBIER that Klosterbrau have brewed from the tanks. It will be ready in 14 days - a very positive development, albeit perhaps commercially driven in an attempt to lure some customers away from Schlenkerla and cash in on the association of Bamberg with rauchbier. 

I will report back when I have tried it. But the take over by Kaiserdom is cautiously looking positive, albeit a shame they couldn't do this as an independant brewery. 

   Klosterbraeu  by  Jason  on  2018-11-23 04:44:05

Sorry, predictive text... Klosterbraeu 

   Klosterbraue  by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-23 08:57:09

I am at Klosterbräu now. The Kellerbier has good flavor, but the body is thin.  The Bockbier is good, typical maltiness with light sweetness.

i asked about a Rauchbier, but they said they don’t have one.

The food menu is mere shadow of its former glory.

     Klosterbraue  by  Jason  on  2018-11-23 10:40:22

I wrote that the rauchbier won’t be ready for 14 days. 

       Klosterbraue  by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-24 03:34:19

Interesting comments from my equally estemmed colleagues!

However, I was talking about the Braunbier, which neither Jason (or Jimbo) sampled.


     Klosterbraue  by  AndyH on  2018-12-04 05:55:27

I won't be viviting again until October next year. However, I've read that the Kellerbier is significantly different enough from the rest of the Kaiserdom Kellerbiere to indicate that it is not brewed at Kaiserdom?

No doubt the truth will out if it is.

 10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  JP on  2018-11-20 15:23:46

First, thank you - this board is a great resource! I scrolled through posts of several years and hope you might have further recommendations. First Franken trip for me, having grown up in northern Germany but living abroad since more than a decade.
I'm working in a small brewery abroad and during a trip some time back had an memorable Monchsambacher from Anstich, that convinced me to finally visit Franken. Interested in the beers, peculiar breweries and brewing installlations but also the local drinking culture. Love to meet for a beer if some of you are around!

Below is an ambitious outline to deviate from spontaenously.
Of couse keeping in mind alcohol levels ect.

I'm especially looking for Anstichs, any near garantees?
Breweries/pubs/beers I missed/you highly recommend? Especialy Frankische Schweiz?
Do any breweries require reservation to buy bottles?
Would breweries fill clean kegs if I show up with them?
Who are the extravagant breweries in Franken?
Recommendation for CZ?


Travel by car & road bicycle

DEC 14 (Friday)
--- Seinsheimer Kellerbraeu
--- Brauerei Zehender (Bockbieranstich!)
DEC 15 (Saturday)
--- Hartleb
--- Scharpf
--- Metzgerbraeu
--- Knoblauch

DEC 16 (Sunday)
--- Griess
--- Krug Geisfeld
--- Liebert
--- Roppelt
--- Witzgall
--- Rittmayer

DEC 17 (Monday)
--- Spezial, Schlenkerla, Mahrs, Abseits, ...

DEC 18 (Tuesday)
--- Roppelt (Hausbrauerfass!)
--- Gradl
--- Heckel
--- Zehender (visit?)
--- Gaenstaeller (visit?)

DEC 19 (Wednesday)
or DEC 20 (Thursday)
--- PLSEN (suggestions?)
--- Pivnice Koutské Pivo
--- Pivovar Modrá Hvězda
--- Plzeňský Prazdroj

DEC 21 (Friday)
--- Gloser, Windischeschenbach  
--- Bahler, Windischeschenbach  
--- possible to arrange visits in Neuhaus, Falkenberg, Mitterteich?

DEC 22
--- Ohne Bedenken, Leipzig (?)
--- Bayrischer Bahnhof, Leipzig (?)
--- or return to Franconia (?)

DEC 23
--- Dusseldorf (?)

Thank you!

   10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason  on  2018-11-21 03:18:14

Hello JP, welcome to the Forum proper. You've asked for a lot of info and i will try my best to help you. I am also happy to meet for a beer when you're here; i will probably be at the Bockbieranstich in Moenchsambach. 

Your questions:

I'm especially looking for Anstichs, any near garantees?
I presume you're referring to bockbier, which means no, you only have Moenchsambach which is the last of the BBA before next September as far as I know. 
Breweries/pubs/beers I missed/you highly recommend? Especialy Frankische Schweiz?
This is a huge question. You have mentioned Heckel, i would add Held Brau not far off and, closer to Bamberg, Foerst in Druegendorf. Reichhold, Hoechstahl. There are others but I think you have enough. 
Do any breweries require reservation to buy bottles?
No, but you may find if you're not known they won't sell you the case as they don't think they'll get it back. The supermarkets have a good selection by the case.
Would breweries fill clean kegs if I show up with them?
I would just email them before and ask. If they have time and are in a good mood, you might, but it's not something I've ever done
Who are the extravagant breweries in Franken?
I'm not sure what you mean by extravagent. Some would say Heckel is extravagent whereas in reality it's just very quaint and traditional. Do you mean are they brewing 'out there' beers, are they only open on a full moon or what ;) ??
Recommendation for CZ?
Go. You need a month. Another huge question. 

On your itinerary:

First, be sure to check opening times and, if possible, call in advance if you're going out of your way. Krug in Geisfeld is now closed. Your Tuesday 18.12 looks hectic, going to Heckel and Moenchsambach in the same day is ambitious, even with a car, then remember both breweries' beers (Lager at M'bach) are nudging 6% so driving is not a good idea. I see it looks like you'll be driving on a few days - I don't judge but it's a risk. Also cycling in December could be nasty but then maybe you've got all the gear!

Re Gaenstaller, I find Andy to be too nice to say no, and almost everyday i imagine a line of well meaning tourists that must cause huge disruption to his job. Just my feeling, but if you know him, drop him a line. If you don't drop him a line :) 

Tell you what, if you meet me at Moenchsambach on Friday 14th December I would be happy to talk you through your plans. There is a bus from Bamberg mid afternoon. 

Bottom line, for a first visit you're doing a lot. I would say too much, just a personal feeling. If you want to tick, then fine, (i suspect not) but if you want to understand culture and get a feeling for this brewing rich region (I suspect yes), then I would go quality not quantity; yes breweries are closing but not that fast - they'll be there next time. And give time to Bamberg, it's a beautiful city and deserves some time outside of the breweries to explore it's history and culture. 

     10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-21 06:43:59

On 30. Nov. is Bockbieranstich at Sambach. I never tried the Bock up to now but will probably visit the brewery that day as I really love their regular Lager. If someone wants to show up...

       10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason on  2018-11-21 14:24:37

I may just do that... their beers are excellent I must say and it’s on my way home from work! No excuses :) 

         10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-22 00:43:25

Jason, I've been there yesterday. All the entries in the local Bockbier calendars are wrong. The Anstich is tomorrow already. 23rd of Nov. Unfortunately that's my birthday, so no way for me. A shame. 

           10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Mark Andersen on  2018-11-22 12:06:26

Tomorrow is my birthday too and I’m visiting breweries.  It’s no excuse. 

             10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason on  2018-11-23 02:38:25

Haha, happy birthday both. It’s not my birthday but I’m also going to visit breweries! 

               10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-23 04:22:22

Thank you, Jason! I've got Hennemann Lager, Bräuwerck Tagwerck (Helles Lager) and Gundel Zwickelt's at home. Will be a nice wee celebration... ;-)

                 10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-23 04:23:03

Good stuff!

                 10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry on  2018-11-24 06:08:38

Sounds excellent.  But tell me, Gundel, I think that we went there, as you were taking bottles back.  The Stube was closed but we sat in the nice garden in the sunshine and drank from bottles bought in the brewery (you had anticpated and brought glasses!).  Quite a hoppy beer, I seem to recall.

Hennemann, presumably Sambach?  If so, went with Nick.  Quite an interesting range of beers, a little bit different.  Braeuwerk, Drossendorf?  Don't know at all, not in Fred's directory of breweries?

Enjoy (as if you won't!).

                   10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  moleha4 on  2018-11-26 00:12:17

I believe that the Braeuwerk referred to is in Neudrossenfeld, and is listed. 

                   10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-26 07:22:56

You remember Gundel right, Barry. We were sitting near the graveyard in the sun. Hennemann Sambach, right, and Bräuwerck Neudrossenfeld. 

                     10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-26 09:32:38

It was a lovely day!

The Neudrossendorf fooled me, as I was looking for Drossendorf.

     10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  JP on  2018-11-26 16:50:33

Thank you, Jason. This were great informations. Looking forward to meet. (i'm not on fb, but hope to arrange something via mail soon!).Folowing yr comments I also decided to return for CZ next year instead and spread the visits over the extra days. Is my email visible in the forums? Please write me a short message!!

About the Anstichs; I might have wrongly assume that Franconcian bar culture might be very subdued at this time of the year and a majority of breweries would be switching to kegs for their normal offerings.

Extravagant may well be quaint and traditional! De Dolle would likelt be my extravagant referential point for belgian brewing.

are there some bars in franconia that have a varied selection of locall breweries available? since my originial post I stumbled over Stoerenkeller and thought to add Held-Braus, Wirtshaus Weiglathal and Prechtl.

Does anyone know contact information to visit the different Zoigl brewers (during their off times - if just for a brief exchange/purchase of bottles/party kegs)?

       10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry on  2018-11-27 01:02:02

Go to where you can find the contact details for every Echte Zoigl brewery. But remember that these people are not full time brewers and might be difficult to contact at times.

       10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Jason  on  2018-11-27 01:03:02

Hi JP, Fred will arrange email exchange. 

Regarding Anstichs: So you're referring to Bayersicher Anstich (BA)... why would Franconian beer culture be subdued at this time of year? It's still very busy, tourists don't sustain it. Downtime as such is January, Febuary and March when tourist levels are low, people are detoxing and the students are away. Unfortunately, many places have switched from BA to keg dispense, especially in Bamberg, where only Schlenkerla dispenses from gravity. Spezial (all) and Keesmann beer (the pils only i think) come from the lager tanks, which is fine. The country breweries are mixed, but I would say BA is rarer these days, especially outside of keller season. 

There are no extravagent breweries compared with De Dolle. There are a few craft breweries but they aren't really near Bamberg, except perhaps Binkert in Breitengussbach which has a porter, pale ale and other non traditional Franconian fare (though nothing mindblowing if you're into modern styles). 

In terms of bars, the famous one is Cafe Abseits in Bamberg. There are also other pubs that have maybe 3 or 4 beers but I wouldn't expect anything like there is in craft beer scenes elsewhere. Beer here is best drunk fresh as the source. Stoehrenkeller is fine, but I'm not a frequent visitor, which may tell you something. Uebelhack (weiglathal) has it's beer brewed elsewhere and they lager it (I understand). 

Re Zoigl: you will not be able to get any Zoigl from families whose stub'n aren't open at that time. They really only brew enough for their pub and as far as I know don't sell barrels or bottles to the public. You can take a syphon and they'll gladly fill it (when open). To be honest, zoigl bier is very much an enigma - it can be very good, but often average, the quality certainly lifted by the experience of the stub'n and their various characters. But the beer doesn't benefit from being taken away, I've done it a few times and it really dies after a few hours in a bottle. This goes for most breweries, just focus on enjoying the experience as a whole; the beers in isolation aren't going to amaze (aside from a few) but the experience as a whole is what elevates them. 

         10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-27 05:54:39

Sorry to contradict but I think that some Zoigl stub'e owners might oblige, if possible, in filling a container with Zoigl but you will have to fit in with them.

However, I totally agree with Jason that it really isn't worthwhile.  Jason's recent experience was with a really excellent Zoigl - at the Zoiglstub'n - but which was pretty dead when he tried it a few days later.  OTOH, a friend of mine reasonably regularly takes Zoigl back with him to the Erzgebirge and says that it is ok for a few days.  It's your choice but I agree with Jason, just go and enjoy what's on offer.  It's tricky because you can only catch 2 or 3 places in one weekend visit, which is what led us into going for long periods - 4 - 8 weeks!

           10 days itinerary (Franken, Oberpfalz, Plsen) by  JP on  2018-11-27 15:26:53

Wonderful, this is far more information than necessary to have a good time! The guidance regarding BA was exactly what I was after, thanks.

I'm not looking for anything craft-related, rather the opposite. And I'm hopeful that the variety of breweries and their beers are infusing a locality and lens absent in other current brewing communities.

Will write you an email in the coming days, Jason! Looking forward to meet at the Zehender Anstich.
Also if anyone else would be up to share a beer let me know. I'll share a more up-to-date itinerary in the coming week.

 I am in Bamberg! by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 08:06:06

   I am in Bamberg! by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 08:08:56

I arrived by train at 3 pm, settled into my room, bought a Mobi Card for the week, and then went to Spezial for my first beer at 4:45 pm.  Great to be back!!

     Spezial Bockbier by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 09:14:07

The Spezial Bockbier has a hint of cocoa from the malt. Smooth and süffig. It has been many years since I had their Bock.

       Spezial Bockbier by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 09:59:49

Great Jim, sorry to have missed you.  Enjoy yourself (as if you won't!).

     Pizzini by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-20 14:51:15

when the hell did Pizzini get taken over by only 20-25 year old customers?

       Pizzini by  Jason on  2018-11-20 23:16:38

Oh yeah that happened around 2 years ago, when old Wally passed away. For me it’s kinda ruined, not so much the younger crowd but the incessant live music nights almost everyday. 

It used to be a haven of quiet conversation late on a weekend night but now it’s just like any other venue. Shame, but it certainly remains popular so not everyone feels the same. Personally I just want some balance, nowt wrong with music, just not 4/6 nights a week. 

 St Georgen, Buttenheim by  FredW on  2018-11-16 16:09:29

Somebody just brought to my attention that both Google Maps and Trip Advisor show the Gastätte as permenently closed. Still looks like it is open on their Facebook page but their website doesn't  doesn't mention the Gastätte, just the Keller.

Did I miss something in one of my drunken stupors smiley

   St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-11-17 04:09:06

For another beer tourist who organises beer tours I have called end of October the brewery. They said, the Gaststätte is closed temporarily. They are looking for a tenant,

     St Georgen, Buttenheim by  pivnizub on  2018-11-17 08:42:59

The Gaststätte is closed since this year's spring, during summer their beautiful Keller (a Keller with a view...;-)) was still open. Better try to catch a beer at the gorgeous Löwenbräu! But it could become difficult, the place is nearly always "sold out"...

       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason on  2018-11-17 10:09:29

I play football in gunzendorf. I don't want to see any brewery or pub close. But I drink a lot of loewenbrau in the pub in gunzendorf and a lot of st Georgen in the Sport heim. Loewenbraeu is frankly terrible. St G helles is fine but the U is worse. 

Both breweries are very poor. 

         St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry on  2018-11-17 12:50:15

Sad and surprised about Loewen, I drank a fair bit of it when we stayed in Buttenheim and liked it. It was also good in the Keller, whereas St Georgen was bad everywhere!

           St Georgen, Buttenheim by  pivnizub on  2018-11-17 15:39:52

De gustibus non est disputandum! ;-) I Think there is a big difference between the Loewenbräu beers served anywhere and served right at the source. Worth a try! Try it...!

             St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-11-19 01:48:04

It has been a while since I visited the brewery. But the beers I've had recently were served direct from the barrel - sure that's not a sure sign of freshness but it negates the possibility of dirty lines being an issue. I saw the beer being poured at the Kaerwa and it didn't look great to be honest. 

Loewenbraeu used to be one of my favourites some years' ago. 

               St Georgen, Buttenheim by  TomM on  2018-11-19 12:12:38

Interesting. It makes me wonder what the faults are with the beers from these two breweries. Diacetyl? DMS? Unbalanced? Bland? Astringent? Freshness problems. All of the above? Something else?

                 St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barm on  2018-11-19 13:21:24

I think Jason is just spoilt for choice.

                   St Georgen, Buttenheim by  TomM on  2018-11-19 16:07:02

To be clear, I am not questioning anyone's opinion. I am just interested in how the opinion was arrived at.

A beer enthusiast living in Franken is a great resource.

                     St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-11-20 06:42:15

In respnse to the 'spoilt for choice' comment, I could quite easily say that those that visit Franken a few times of year put on their rose tinted glasses and, in holiday mode, can be very easily satisfied by frankly inferior products. And as a former 'tourist', I know exactly what it's like - maybe my memories of Loewnebraue are just that. Drinking beer regularly gives you a more balanced viewpoint and the most consistent breweries stand out like a sore thumb, good or bad. Plus I'm not looking for a great beer everytime - just one that ticks the basic boxes. Anything better is great, but not every beer needs to be a masterpiece. 

Tom - I really don't want to overcomplicate this, partly because I'm not an expert in beer faults, I just know what's good and what isn't. I have had a number of Loewenbraue beers from the barrel these past months and they just tasted lifeless, lacking in flavour and a bit like wet cardboard (oxidation). Not Diacytel - might actually make it taste of something. The biggest compliement would be: tastless. Now I may have had a second, so it's not necessarily bad, just 'meh'. This is almost worse, because clearly there is little enthusiasm for flavour somewhere. 

I will caveat again that I haven't drunk it fresh at the brewery - i will make a point to stop off soon and report back. I'm not optimistic though. 

St Georgen Brau used to be quite good too, but the U is most certainly a mess these days. We have the Helles at football and it's ok. 

For balance, tonight I will be making my usual Tuesday trip to Doerfleins, where, as usual the beer will be fantastic. 


                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 10:08:50

It's really hard to judge beers on an occasional visit, as you say.  I enjoyed Loewenbraue when I stayed in Buttenheim for a couple of weeks, both in the Keller and the Stube.  But I don't think it was great, just enjoyable on the occasion.  Certainly not a patch on Eichorn, where the Dunkel is adorable - too adorable!

St Georgen doesn't bare thinking about.  On my last visit to the Keller with Andrew, it was bad enough for us to throw away.  A rare sight with parsimonious pensioners!  Mind you, the Helles in Drosendorf was as bad but I struggled through it under the eyes of the owner!

                         St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason on  2018-11-20 11:05:31

And yet my last visit to Göller found the beer to be fine. Nothing special but certainly passable. 

Thats another point; even living here there will always be unexplained inconsistencies. 

                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  TomM on  2018-11-21 04:07:37

Thanks for the reply, Jason. Sort of sounds like old stock or too much oxygen uptake before/during kegging.

When I went to Franken for the first time I really enjoyed the beers and brauereigaststätte so much so that I wanted to come back as often as I could. On the other hand, I was often surprised at the quality of some of the beer I was served. Some beers, often labeled Hell(es), had little more character than you would find in a typical mass-produced lager as found in the US or the UK. Other beers were downright foul tasting, exhibiting signs of rampant infection. It was really a bit hit and miss, maybe more than you would expect condsidering the reputation of Bayern beers

I haven't been back in so long now that I wouldn't hazard an opinion on indivual breweries. Was hoping to go this autumn but employment and health difficulties have got in the way. Maybe 2019...

                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  AndyH on  2018-12-04 06:04:19

Doerfleins was the standout beer of my last visit to Franken.

So was the food, the menu said, "Heute Schauferla!"

               St Georgen, Buttenheim by  pivnizub on  2018-11-19 22:44:15

Löwenbräu is still one of my favourites, but maybe it tastes better at the source, because the pub is just great. I have to admit, that Lieberth and Witzgall are surely better, IMHO the best beers You can get in Franconia...

                 St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason  on  2018-11-20 06:51:11

Witzgall is very good, wouldn't disagree with that. But there are better, to my taste, niether would be in my top 10, not that it is important to anyone else but me. 

Interesting point: I drink a lot of Moenchsambacher in Rotenschild in Bamberg, served BA. It's never as good as in the brewery, and it's not just the atmosphere. Beer is always better at source, it's not meant to be put in a lorry and driven around etc etc. 

                   St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 10:10:22

I think I remember drinking the Moenchsambacher in Rotenschild recently - vaguely.  It was ok, good enough to inspire an argument about basketball!

                     St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Jason on  2018-11-20 11:12:24

Yeah it was a bit oxidized on your visit. Still, perfectly enjoyable. 

Ps. It was a discussion

                       St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Mark Andersen on  2018-11-20 11:35:06

Let me guess .... Barry is against Basketball?

Anyhow, everytime I've had Moenchsambacher at Rotenschild it's been excellent and yes even better at the brewery.  Although maybe better just because the place is fantastic.

                         St Georgen, Buttenheim by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-20 12:09:33

Not against basketball, just don't particularly like to watch it - probably better to play - if you're seven feet tall!  But, like with beer, there's room for all shapes and sizes.

And I do recall that the Moenchsambacher was pretty decent; it's just that it followed a lot of others.

 Fred by  TreinJan on  2018-11-14 03:19:31

It's Fred's birthday today, so here goes: Happy/hoppy birthday to you!

   Fred by  Barm on  2018-11-14 04:21:35

Happy birthday. I am honoured to have shared beers with Fred in three different cities, here’s to the next time, whenever it is.

     Fred by  pivnizub on  2018-11-14 13:43:24

Glad to have met You this year in Duesseldorf with a Sticke... Congrats!!!

       Meeting by  FredW on  2018-11-14 15:07:33

It was great to finally meet you in person after all these years.

I hope next time we have more time so you can educate me on Czech beer...

   Thanks by  FredW on  2018-11-14 20:22:26

Thanks the greeting and I hope to be sharing beers with you again soon (and Jan, I will be in Amsterdam for a week next month, plus the Kerstbierfest in Essen)

     Thanks by  TreinJan on  2018-11-15 00:18:24

Will be in Essen on the sunday. When are you in A'dam?

       Thanks by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-15 02:27:07

Did it on facebook already, do it again here: Happy Birthday, Fred

         Thanks by  FredW on  2018-11-15 20:16:42

Thanks twice smiley

       Thanks by  FredW on  2018-11-15 20:16:25

I'll be in A'dam Dec 4-11, then I head to Antwerp. I'll be both days at Essen (just finished iPhone and Android apps for the festival)

 Off to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-05 01:06:45

Just eating my breakfast porridge, then off to Franken for a week!

Not been in the autumn/winter for many years but the forecast is for a heatwave - well, a mild spell.

   Off to Franken by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-11-05 15:10:03

Enjoy, Barry, the beer is definitely better than Bangkok!

     Off to Franken by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-11-05 21:10:57

Sorry we will miss each other in Germany.  Have fun! 

   Off to Franken by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-06 01:06:10

When will you leave, Barry? Hope to get the opportunity to meet you - maybe for a Seidla or two at Neuhaus/Pegnitz?

     Off to Franken by  Barry on  2018-11-06 08:00:58

Hi juergen here now, just enjoyed a Seidla or two with Frank in Schlenkerla. I go back next Monday, until then, free as a bird, more or less. Maybe we could meet en route to Neuhaus?

       Off to Franken by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-11-06 23:59:58

That's going to be difficult. I'm on an outdoor camp in the Steigerwald with my kids until Friday, then fully booked out for the weekend. Monday would be okay, but that's your leaving day.

         Off to Franken by  Barry on  2018-11-07 02:47:24

That's no problem, I'll be here in the spring (if not before!), So we can work something out then. Enjoy your camping - you have good weather.

           Off to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-13 02:06:46

So, back from Franken - kitchen renovation still ongoing, house still a building site!

A very nice week, thanks Frank (even though you're probably not reading this!) for being a good host and Jason for being a good companion for so much of the time.  I'm still recovering - haven't not yet learned that I can't drink toe to toe with younger people nowadays!

Hard to know what to say, as I can't think of anything adventurous or different done during the week.  No, just the same boring trips around the same old beautiful places, including Markendorf (couple of times, sorry about the football result, Jason), Dorfleins (the Dunkel was so more-ish) and, of course, Forcheim (what trip to Franken could possible leave out Neder!).  I did venture into Mahrs for first time for maybe four years,  Same old lovely Schwemme but the U just a pale carbonated version of its former self.  Ditto visit to Klosterbraue - what is there not to like about this place: a proper Schwemme (even with seats, Mahrs take note), very pleasant inside but, oh, I forgot the Braunbier.  At first so fizzy that I was burping after three mouthfuls, then, after leaving for a time and a bit of swirling around, flat, flat, flat, and as bland and sweet as can be.  Probably another four years (if ever) I return to either.

What else, well I learned a bit more about Schafkopf - actually enough to persuade me never to get into a game where there's money involved (more thanks to JW) - drank a lot more than I should have but had a thoroughly good time and met some lovely people.  What more can you ask?


             Off to Franken by  Jason  on  2018-11-13 05:45:51

Nice report Barry, if it makes you feel any better, I am also still recovering. Sunday sessions are a very nice way to spend the day but they are not the best preparation for the working week. 


               Off to Franken by  Barry Taylor on  2018-11-13 07:10:02

It was an interesting day.  And also not the best preparation for my 11-hour cycle of walking, waiting, trains and planes.  But we both made it - somehow.

 Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Bierbus on  2018-10-30 06:48:56

Hey beer lovers,

my name is Daniel, I'm 35 years old, born in Bamberg and I'm an absolute franconian beer fanatic and I've just founded my beer bus tours company.
We offer an unforgettable view into the world-famous highest concentration of breweries of Bambergs region.
You will book a full service package - pick up and drop off service within the region of Bamberg - lunch and six different beers are included - minitasting during the ride - inside view of a brewery.
Individual arrangement can be made (other breweries than proposed), we can also arrange accomodations (with lead time).
The tours are available only on saturday and sunday due to the opening hours of the breweries. The minimum booking is 5 people up to 8.
For details visit my page

and leave like on facebook

I hope to see you soon on a ride through Bambergs beer culture!


Daniel Stenglein

   Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Jason  on  2018-10-31 01:23:08

Sers Daniel, 

I would recommend also posting something on Beer Advocate, there are lots of people on there and generally quite a bit of discussion regarding Franconia. 

Ich wohne auch in Bamberg, ursprünglich aus dem Vereinigten Königreich. Wenn ich dir helfen kann, mit Leute die der Bus buchen wollen, sag ich dir Bescheid.


     Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Bierbus on  2018-11-05 00:40:08

Hey Jason,

that's nice, thank you!

How can I contact you? Are you on facebook?



       Guided brewery tours through the tavern culture of Bambergs surrounding region by  Jason  on  2018-11-05 02:28:48

Yes, I'm on Facebook... Jason Watts, I should be easy to find.  

 Coming Back to Bamberg in November by  Uncle Jimbo on  2018-10-27 13:08:23

It has been too long since my last visit, so I am coming back to Bamberg in November (US Thanksgiving week).  I look forward to drinking a lot of Bockbier, and maybe visiting at least 1 Bockbieranstich (Greifenklau).



   Coming Back to Bamberg in November by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-28 03:54:42

Ah, that's a shame; I had to look up US-Thanksgiving snd found out that it's a fortnight after I leave.

Next time.

   Coming Back to Bamberg in November by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-28 14:29:51


 OT very: Bangkok by  Barry on  2018-10-22 05:19:45

May be in Bangkok in December, anybody know anything about beer there?

   OT very: Bangkok by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 07:35:24

You're not 'doing a Nick are you' and going off the rails Barry?!?

There's a Mikkeller bar there... I found Flensburg on Koh Samui and it was like nectar after 5 weeks of East Asian pils style beer. 

Go with no expectations and you won't be disappointed. 

   OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-23 04:48:52

What on earth has you travelling all the way to Bangkok in December?  Just curious.  

     OT very: Bangkok by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-23 08:52:49

We call them "Schwanznutten". ;-)

       OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-23 09:06:46

Too funny Juergen.  I'm going to be laughing all day now.

       OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-24 13:06:37

Very funny!  Um .... But, not in this case, see below.

   OT very: Bangkok by  DonS on  2018-10-23 11:04:44

Barry, email me. Rather than clutter this space up with an OT discussion, you could ask someone who's actually been to Bangkok relatively recently.

     OT very: Bangkok by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-10-23 12:47:06

       OT very: Bangkok by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-10-23 12:50:19

Sorry firing blanks. Barry, my wife and I go to Thailand every couple of yearsso I know Bangkok reasonably well. Email me on johnratcliffe 'at' if you have any specific questions or just a general query about beer in Thailand. Happy to help,

     OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-24 04:16:07

Barry: other people who know about beer and have also ‘actually’ been to Bangkok are available. 

       OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-24 13:14:03

Ok, in response to my 'friend' Juergen, a totally innocent potential visit but it's not going to happen now.  It's a bit complicated but I'm having delapidated kitchen renovated so I thought that I'd get out of the way and decided to visit my sister in Aussie.  But, as I didn't want to fly non-stop, and didn't fancy Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, UAE, etc., thought Thailand might be nice.

However, as I'm awaiting a final hospital diagnosis, I can't get get travel insurance, so I ain't going nowhere, including Aussie.   I'm writing this sitting in the wreckage of my house - consolation, 4 pints of nice Moose Snowdonia and quite a good meal in the Jalsa, Conwy.

Don, I so appreciate the opinions of my friends on this Forum (but only on beer), that I always float questions here first.  It's a Stammtisch and, on the Stammtisch, the conversation flows freely!

         OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-24 13:21:28

Well IMO it's not so busy here on the forum that we can't have the occasional OT beer related conversation.  Hope your doing okay Barry and your diagnosis on whatever it is is not bad and good luck with the kitchen headache.  You just may have to spend a lot more time in the Albion and Red Lion until it's done.

           OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-25 09:22:10

Exactly.  Because of the free exchange of information, a number of contributors have got to know each other over the years (not an exclusive group, open to anyone!) and this has led to many enjoyable meetings.  As Isay, I value the opinion of my esteemed forum colleagues, so often float OT ideas here - why not, anyone can?

Kitchen is a headache and, as a matter of fact, I'm seeing if I can find somewhere to stay in Bamberg next week (at a reasonable cost for a penurious oap) to escape the banging and crashing and lack of amenities!

Don't worry about the diagnosis but thank you, I'm not too concerned.  Incidentally, I had a really nice Indian (well, Bangladeshi, like most so-called Indian restaurants in UK) in Conwy last night.  Excellent veg Madras and interesting conversation with the waiter/part owner.

             OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-25 09:56:28

I think that it was John R who recomended a nice Fewo somewhere close to Abseits?  I've only gone and lost the address - again - can you help?

               OT very: Bangkok by  Gavin  on  2018-10-25 15:07:04

Here you go Barry,

                 OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-25 15:21:52

Thanks, Gavin, much appreciated.  Unfortunately, already booked next week - not surprising!

                   OT very: Bangkok by  Gavin  on  2018-10-25 15:48:03

Shame , Sunday till Thursday is available but not the full week

                     OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-25 23:30:47

Next week there is a holiday Barry, on Thursday, which means most people (like me) will take the Friday too. I imagine getting a place in the city will be impossible. 

My parents really enjoyed staying in rattelsdorf. Could help you with an enquiry if you wish. 

                       OT very: Bangkok by  Johnratcliffe on  2018-10-26 00:55:08

I think I mentioned that a good few airbnb plaves are out near the Abseits, Barry, not aware of a specific place. Our fewo is behind the Fassla, but 2 bedrooms, so not really suitable for you. Theres always Bangkok!!

             OT very: Bangkok by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-25 11:19:51

Escaping to Bamberg while the kitchen is remodeled.  Brilliant!  Why didn't I think of that when mine was being done?  There must be some other home improvement project I can initiate though.

               OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-25 23:31:55

Sod it, just knock down the house and start again! 

                 OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-26 02:56:25

Unfortunately, it would take the rest of the street with it!

Thanks everybody for help and suggestions.  Now working on several alternative plans.

                   OT very: Bangkok by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-27 02:22:38

So, alternative plan A+ in action - off to Bamberg from Nov 5 to 12, staying at Franks, while kitchen man tiles floor, walls, etc., etc.

I wonder if there's any Bockbier left anywhere or did Fred, Don and the 'Warriors' finish it all?  I'm not too fussed anyway, 'tis a bit strong for little old me.  I'm sure Frank will know.

                     OT very: Bangkok by  Jason on  2018-10-27 02:49:22

Plenty of bockbier barry. You will be here for Spezial’s bockbier anstich! And Hummel, Kraus and Spezi Keller! A veritable feast. c. 80% of the bocks in the countryside will have been tapped by then. 

 The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason on  2018-10-22 01:03:07

... they now get their beer from Püls Bräu. I have no further info but 

One plus, Brauerei Schneider in Weißenburg is now brewing again. 

   The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-22 01:15:50

Very sad. The Wichert Dunkel was outstanding! But good news about Schneider - as long as I knew it, it was great beer and atmosphere!

     The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Barry on  2018-10-22 05:16:06

Oh no, it's getting worse and worse. Wichert was really nice. Who are Puls, any good?

       The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 07:38:10

Puls Brau is in Weisman, south of Burgkunstadt. Never really drunk it, it's probably comparable to Kitzmann; fine but boring. Or maybe i'm being generous. 

         The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-22 08:09:22

Unless the social culture in Bavaria changes, I'm afraid we can expect more closings or unwanted changes. And I'm not too optimisitic about the social culture changing.

           The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 08:25:47

In many ways it's less about the culture of Franconia and more about existential influences. Legislation, changing society, the growth of cities, health awareness, lifestyle choices, technology, globalisation etc etc. And I'm not casting judgement on those examples. 

It's the social culture of Franconia that has preserved many of these breweries for so long - like nowhere else in the world.

The question is not why so many are closing; but how so many have lasted so long. 

             The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-22 09:25:44

Sorry, but I disagree and your last sentence is evidence of why you are wrong. The social culture I was referring to was the reluctance of children to take over the pub when their parents decide to retire. The pubs lasted so long because, until recently, the children followed their parents.

I'm not saying that there are no other factors causing the closings. But the children is, in my view, the big one. We had a similar case here in Amsterdam and the parents put the pub up for sale rather than just closing.


               The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason on  2018-10-22 09:46:26

Wrong? Why does someone have to be wrong? Why can’t you disagree and leave it at that? It’s kindergarten stuff. 

The following generation often pass up the family business because of the factors I mentioned (AS EXAMPLES): globalization and the opportunities in cities. Do they decide to take up farming or rearing livestock? No. They go to study or travel and go to live elsewhere - because they have a choice. Villages are slowly dying all over Westen Europe. Social culture doesn’t derive from children all of a sudden just having no appetite for family business, that’s the result, and it’s caused by factors influencing the global western society - nothing to do with Bavaria or Franconia uniquely. 

The son of one brewery here is a brewer, and he won’t take over his fathers brewery because he prefers working at Kaiser Brau in Neuhaus where he has fixed working hours. Lifestyle CHOICE. 50 years ago that wouldn’t have been a choice. 

                 The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-22 10:42:19

Look, I said I diagreed with you, so obviously one of us is wrong. Sure, kids today certainly have more choices than our parents did. And yes, that's probably why they look elsewhere for a career. When choices are more limited, following your father or mother into a career must be a pretty easy choice.
Although it's got nothing to do with brewing or beer, Hitler's father wanted Adolf to follow in his footsteps. Hitler didn't and we all know how badly that turned out. Yes, a rather extreme example. I've got two kids who are both in their twenties and both have chosen a profession different from mine. OTOH, they are both doing quite well in their chosen profession, so I can't really complain.

                   The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  Jason  on  2018-10-22 10:54:20

You are free to disagree, but that remains your opinion, as it was mine. Saying someone is wrong, unless it is a tangible 'fact', is very different and unnecessary. It's just general etiqutte, which should apply to forums as well as in person. 

Anyway, moving on, I'm not sure your examples bring anything to the discussion, aside from agreeing with me, so I don't have anything more to add. 

                   The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  TomM on  2018-10-22 11:43:57

"Hitler's father wanted Adolf to follow in his footsteps. Hitler didn't and we all know how badly that turned out."

Wow, didn't expect Godwin's Law to be rearing its ugly head in a forum about German beer.

                     The rot continues... Brauerei Wichert no longer brewing  by  M. Berger on  2018-10-23 02:42:29

I see you left out the preface to the sentence: "Although it's got nothing to do with brewing or beer..."

As it happens, I know about Hitler's early life and I know that his father often beat the young Hitler because both father and son were strong-willed and both had different ideas about what young Hitler should become later in life.

When surnames were given out in the medieval time, many of these surnames described a profession, such as Müller (miller),  Schmidt (blacksmith), Schneider (tailor) Schulz (guard), Metzger (butcher), Bauer, (farmer), Zimmerman (carpenter),etc. While these names described the profession of the father, it was conventional at the time that the children would carry on the father's profession. Hitler's story is an example of that tradition. Other surnames included a place, such as Frankfurter, Berliner, Koelner, etc. since people at that time did not move around as much as we do today.

When the Bierbraurechten (brewing licenses) were given out in the early middle ages,  they were given to buildings, not to people. Why? Because the people would die and the recht would die with them. Buildings, OTOH, could last and do last for centuries, which would mean long-term availability of beer. Of course, that assumed (correctly for many centuries) that the family of the father would carry on brewing or that the house might be sold in the future to a family that would be interested in the profession.

I once found a real estate company in Germany, that let you search for homes that included a Bierbraurecht - meaning, you could buy the house and without any further administrative permission,  begin brewing.

 No trains between Bamberg and Forchheim 20th–27th October by  Barm on  2018-10-19 03:47:34

From this Saturday the line between BA and FO is closed while they work on it to expand it to four tracks.
Replacement buses will be running but do check the DB site before travelling and plan for longer journey times. The four tracks will be used when the new timetable starts on 9 December.;art216,3777747

 Endres / Goldenen Adler by  moleha4 on  2018-10-19 02:12:54

I recollect that when I first tried to visit this place mid October 2014, that they were having their 2 week long Betriebsurlaub, so I am guessing that this is why it was found to be closed earlier this week. 

 Brauerei Endres by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-18 07:14:57

Does anyone know if Brauerei Endres, Rattelsdorf is still brewing. If so, is it worth a visit?

   Brauerei Endres by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 08:40:13

They were as of last July and I thought the beer was very good as it has been in past visits.  I think it is well worth a visit.  However, Jason can probably chime on a more recent experience as I recall he found the beer not very good recently.  Still I'd give it a visit considering there are also other places nearby that you can visit such as Ebing and also if you don't mind a walk up over a hillside there is Reckendorf.

When it's in good form it's one of my favorite beers (and luckily it's always been in good form when I have visited - at least I never tasted anything wrong) and it's a really nice place and village to drink in.

     Brauerei Endres by  TomM on  2018-10-18 08:44:45

There's a five-star review on Google from just a week ago on both the food and beer.

Phone # is +49 9547 264.

       Brauerei Endres by  Mosquit on  2018-10-18 09:23:16

Have been there in the spring, opened as usual. I wouldnt comment the quality of beer, to not open flane war again :)

         Brauerei Endres by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 10:25:39

I think you should comment on the quality of the beer.  No flame war necessary.  I think the results in some of these small countryside breweries can and do vary.  While I have really liked the beer in my past visits I've also heard the occasional negative reports.  It's no surprise.

           Brauerei Endres by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 10:26:50

I think the bottom line is though, as it relates to this particular thread, is David should go and see for himself.  Worst case scenario is he doesn't like it and visits one of the other breweries nearby.

             Brauerei Endres by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-19 00:13:53

Still brewing and the beer is awesome. Sorry to sound too positive and non-critical for a "conoisseur".

               Brauerei Endres by  Barry on  2018-10-19 01:41:11

Bit confused at first because I always just think of Endres Rattelsdorf as just Goldenen Adler, Hoefen. Imho, what is there to dislike? Lovely dark beer (I've never had anything but excellent), good service, nice place. What more do you need? Food, no idea, couldn't care less, take my own to most places.

Juergen, great minds think alike! I've not often (ever?) found you wrong.

                 Brauerei Endres by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-19 01:52:54

Thanks to all who replied. I was asking on behalf of a friend who visited yesterday around 17:00 only to find the place closed. He did get to speak with some locals who seemed to think that the beer was being brewed on the premises but that's ony hearsay. I'll have to drop in next time I'm in the area

                   Brauerei Endres by  Jason on  2018-10-21 03:49:58

The beer is brewed there. They had Kerwa a few weeks nach which is why they are closed. I visited the week before Kerwa and the beer was poor, full of butter. This is an anomaly though, it’s normally good, though nothing special to my mind. 

Kerwa in snall villages can often lead to shorter lagering time as they try to produce more beer. A couple of corrections: the pub is called Goldemer Adler, the family name is endres, the village is Höfen and the beer is golden not dark. 

                 Brauerei Endres by  Barm on  2018-10-19 03:37:05

Are you a Brotzeit devotee Barry? It is one of my favourite things about the pub culture in Oberfranken.

                   Brauerei Endres by  Barry on  2018-10-19 16:12:33

Not specially, basically, I go to pubs to drink beer. Food, I can eat at home. Btw I'm a vegetarian, so franken/Bayern/German food not especially appealing. Strangely, the best pub for veggie food in Bamberg is one of the most traditional. Anyone guess (or could care less)?

                     Brauerei Endres by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 03:13:37

I'd be interested to know as I have a veggie in my group visiting next autumn.

 Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Jason on  2018-10-15 04:36:13

So i was in Griess on Saturday and it was confirmed that Krug is closed until further notice due to illness. It’s thought to be serious. 

Sad on many levels. Let’s hope the situation improves, regardless of whether the brewery opens again or not. 

   Brauerei Krug - Update  by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-18 07:11:24

Agreed, thanks for the update Jason

     Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-18 08:43:59

It is a bummer about Krug.  Personally I like it better than Griess and I really like the pub and the beer garden.  Nice atmosphere, good beer, etc.   It's a bummer.

       Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Jeff Romain on  2018-10-19 09:20:22

Totally agree, Mark. My heart really sank when I learned of this. I always enjoyed staying in Geisfeld. While I enjoy the beers just fine at Griess (esp. the Pils, which I believe has been discontinued, sadly), the barrel pours at Krug always seemed to have a lot of soul, and the brewpub felt cozy. I found the Lager to be a terrifically balanced and clean beer with a nice Spalter hop signature. Did you ever try their Rauchbier or Helles Lagerbier, by chance?  

         Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Barry on  2018-10-19 16:15:06

Agreed. What's the one with 'sheep' in it's name?

           Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Jason on  2018-10-21 14:18:00

Schwarzer Schaf i think. They did periodical specials. 

I was with Frank and Robert today and the brewery is highly unlikely to reopen. 

             Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Barry on  2018-10-22 05:20:48

That's it. Very nice. Real shame.

         Brauerei Krug - Update  by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-21 16:40:18

No I never did try their Rauchbier or Helles.  

 Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jason on  2018-10-12 18:54:31

more details to follow, or not. 

   Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barry on  2018-10-13 02:11:19

I really hope not, as i like Krug a lot.

     Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jason  on  2018-10-13 02:58:51

There is no question that it's closed Barry, the question was whether more details will follow. I heard it from a friend and Fred confirmed he's heard something similar. I have sent a text to Robert for final confirmation. 

Kitzmann was nothing compared to this one, a real gem of a pub. Admittedly I wasn't a frequent visitor but i always enjoyed it when I did. I guess a small village with 2 breweries and a keller (plus at least one other pub I can remember) can't sustain all. But then I'm speculating. 

       Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barry on  2018-10-14 01:45:06

Strange really - many members of this forum preferred Griess to Krug but, the few times that I was in Geisfeld, Krug was always more populated. Nice place, nice beer but rather odd opening times, if I remember correctly?

         Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-15 00:33:01

That's very sad news and I can't quite believe it. It used to be a very popular place amongst the villagers and the beer enthusiasts. 

           Krug, Geisfeld closes by  David Greenlee on  2018-10-15 03:23:49

Great shame, I always enjoyed my visits to Krug. Liked the beer and the Brotzeit and that thing that has all but disappeared in Bamberg...a warm welcome. There's no justice.

       Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barm on  2018-10-15 03:12:12

You might well prefer Krug beer to Kitzmann beer (I think I probably would too) but it is wrong to counterpose Kitzmann as “nothing” in comparison. They are both aspects of the same sad phenomenon.

I think it’s very sad when a larger town loses its "own" brewery, one that – and I think this is the distinguishing feature – supplied significant numbers of outlets beyond its own brewery tap, sponsored the local festivals or football team, and “prägt das Stadtbild” – in a way that cannot be compensated by a couple of guys setting up in their garage to brew IPAs.

I have always found it comforting to arrive in a town and see that the beer is different, but nonetheless ubiquitous, to see the Hofbräu signs on restaurants in Würzburg, Brauhaus signs in Schweinfurt and Kitzmann in Erlangen (and I am old enough to remember Hiernickel in Hassfurt and Werner in Poppenhausen too). It doesn’t really matter if I thought the beers were especially good, that's not the point. The average citizens of these places are now all drinking Kulmbacher instead (whether they realise it or not).


         Krug, Geisfeld closes by  barry on  2018-10-15 14:43:21

I'm not sure that I ever drank Kitzmann biers but I do agree wtih your general point.

           Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Mosquit on  2018-10-15 22:43:36

I have been in Kitzmann in summer, directly in their Gasthof. 
To be honest nothing special, I would say we were not impressed at all. 

Another surprise was the price, which was about 3,60€ for a Seidla of usual beer  (Pils / Helles / Kellerbier) and 3,90€ for specials... 

Anyway its pity, as it was supplier for many pubs in region. 

With Krug: I like it much more than Griess, so this was shocking news for me. Hopefully they could get back soon, if any. 

             Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Andrew H on  2018-10-17 09:16:48

I am sure mosquito that you approached the Brewer,and advised him regarding his mistakes in brewing. I feel sure he will be most grateful for you advice.and learn by his mistakes.

               Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Barry on  2018-10-17 11:06:50

Are you taking the p___ Andrew? Naughty boy.

                 Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-17 13:02:06

It's professional jealousy perhaps.  I happen to know from personal experience that Andy is one of the toughest and most aggressive beer raters ever.  I think he feels threatened.

                   Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Jason  on  2018-10-18 03:31:22

To be fair to Mosquit, he (i presume he) never said there were any mistakes in the beer, merely that it was 'nothing special'. 

I side with Andy generally on the fact that so many people in the beer world talk so much about so many things they know next to nothing about. Like a lot of things these days, their opinion is based on things they read on the internet. Regurgitated ignorence. 

                     Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Mosquit on  2018-10-18 06:28:19

We (group of me + few brewers, some of them being certified beer judges) haven't detected any off-flavors in few samples of Kitzmann, to be fair. Just beer wasn't properly balanced as we would like to. In some beers, we had a feeling that too much hop extract was used, causing unpleasant bitterness. 

It simply ended as "OK, we have tested it, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't anyhow remarkable or exceptionally good, there is no reason to stop here next time". 

     Krug, Geisfeld closes by  Andrew H on  2018-10-17 09:11:32

Sorry chaps! Had lots going on recently. Will catch up when I get to a proper PC,not this bloody phone! Seems like there is a heluva lot going on.

 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barm on  2018-09-28 12:59:50

Shock closure of Kitzmann brewery in Erlangen – brewing ceases as of this Sunday, 30th September.

Brands and distribution agreements are being taken over by Kulmbacher. The 35 Kitzmann staff have been made redundant.

   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  TomM on  2018-09-28 14:33:35

Disturbing news, whatever you think about Kitzmann beer.

I have had no inkling of a problem with the brewery. Any others closer to Erlangen?

     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-09-29 09:21:04

Closure connected with Nick's defection?

       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-09-30 17:10:49

I agree with Barry.  Nick, give us a shout out

         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  FredW on  2018-09-30 17:53:36

I'm not sure Nick is active online so much any more...

There was a court date on this earlier this year but I haven't heard anything about it. His facebook page has been inactive since then.

           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-01 03:40:58

My comment was a bit flippant, Doug; as Fred says, Nick's life has taken a wholly unexpected turn, far away from Erlangen.  We used to correspond regularly but I also haven't heard from him since the unfortunate incident, subject of the news story.

             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-01 04:22:49

He still has an active twitter account that he uses primarily to preach about carnivory.  But it does appear he has made his 10k bail as he is on the loose in Vegas. 

               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  TomM on  2018-10-01 14:42:46

This thread took a weird turn. Even weirder than usual.

           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-10-01 16:44:19

Fred, thanks for the update.  Never met Nick but did enjoy his inputs.  Really hope this situation works out favorable for Nick.

             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-02 03:02:48

According to various newspapers Herr Kitzmann says, his reasons for the closure were the ongoing decline of beer consumption and "personal reasons". 35 people lost their job. The brand was sold to Kulmbacher - so we all know what we can expect when ordering a Kitzmann in a few weeks... :-/

Won't comment on Nick's questionable career. 

               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-03 04:31:03

Is there an 'ongoing decline' in beer consumption in Franken?

You are the 'sole of discretion', Juergen!

Tom: don't conversations normally take weird turns? Lrt's face it, people are pretty weird! 

                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-04 00:41:31

                   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry on  2018-10-04 02:12:44

Interesting but two points:
1. As  I understand it, the graph shows consumption per head rather than total production and consumption. Does this mean that the same amount of beer is being consumed by more people or less beer being consumed by the same number of peope?
2. It suggests that beer consumption per head is at 1960s levels. Presumably, the population was less then and Germany was split in two! Does this graph cover both east and west?

                     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-05 02:01:55

Here is a chart with the number of working breweries per state in Germany from 1995 to 2017. By this time, German reunification had occurred.

Whereas almost all states saw an increase in the number of breweries, Bavaria lost 84. FWIW, Bavaria is the second most populous state in Germany. It is mostly rural.

                       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barry Taylor on  2018-10-05 04:41:36

Um ... interesting figures but not quite answering my questions.

Someone else will have to calculate the minutiae; i.e. number of breweries per head of population, beer produced per brewery, etc., but what is obvious, of course, is that the number of breweries in Bayern is and was far greater than anywhere else by a big margin.  But, why did Nord Rhein-Westfalen (the biggest Laender) have, apparently, so few - after all, beer drinking is hardly uncommon there?  Why does Baden-Wuerttemburg (nearly as populous as Bayern, quite rura and which includes a slice of Franconia) have far less breweries than Bayern?  Incidentally, what is the proportion of breweries in Frankische B-W compared to the rest of the Laender?  Does Bayern have so many breweries because it is rural (transport problems, isolated communities, etc.)?

Another interesting thing is that, with the exception of Thueringen, every Laender has increased the number of its breweries?  Are they all aspiring to be Bayern?  More and more questions spring to mind, for example, the influence (if any) of religion: Bayern is by far the most Catholic Laender and has the most breweries.  If we combine the populations of the three most Protestant states (Hessen, Bremen, Nieder-Sachsen), the figure is only a couple of million less than Bayern but, between them, they have only a third of the breweries but nearly doubling between 1995 and 2017. Interesting.

I have no idea if anyone else is interested in this kind of thing.  You might guess that it's a slow morning, raining outside and I'm fairly stiff from yesterday's golf.  Thanks for providing the diversion, Herr Berger! 

                         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Barm on  2018-10-05 05:01:32

Nordrhein-Westfalen is also the part of Germany that is most industrial, so much so that it is iconic. Krupp, Thyssen, the miners of Dortmund and Bochum. Brewing there therefore also became industrialised, so there were/are a fairly small number of large breweries producing a huge amount of beer. Dortmund was the biggest beer producing city in Germany at its height.

Baden-Württemberg is in a similar position, dominated by strong regional breweries. And it is also a very significant wine producing state, which Bayern isn't.

Bayern is the exception, not the norm. We should be asking why Bayern still had so many breweries, not why other states have fewer.

                           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-10-05 07:08:05

Maybe we should also ask why is Bayern losing so many breweries?  Are there issues beyond less consumption. 
Hope Barry enjoyed his golf game yesterday

                             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-05 08:35:33

Absolutely but I think most of the reasons have been given - fall of demand in rural areas, changes of taste and, probably most significant, lack of successors.  Volunteers for a serious study required.

And, thanks for asking: it was my first venture onto a golf course since a year last November (or thereabouts) and I was pleased to find that I wasn't doing much worse than before. Not that that was anything special. But, after 9 holes, today, I feel a little bit stiff and muscles that I didn't know that I had are aching!

                               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-06 10:59:39

Bavaria is geographically unique in Germany. In the south of Bavaria are the German Alps. And while there may be hills elsewhere in Germany, there are no other mountains. Thanks to the unusual geography, Bavaria had a primitive sort of refrigeration centuries before the rest of the country.

In addition to the mountains, there were also lakes and ponds. There were also stone caves. The Bavarians would wait until the lakes and ponds had frozen, then cut out large blocks of ice and bring them into the caves. They also planted leafy trees near the cave entrances to keep out sunlight. Barrels of beer were stored in these caves over the summer. Because of the danger of fire, brewing was not allowed during the summer months.

In the early middle ages Bavarian rulers were giving houses brewing rights so that townspeople would have beer to drink. These brewing rights were given as early as the 13th and 14th centuries.

Gradually communal brewing houses were set up. Mostly these were established in the homes of people with brewing rights. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of these communal breweries in Bavaria. Many of them were still active as late as 1990. Since then,however, many have closed. However, there are local beer enthusiasts who often try to renovate the closed brewery and bring it back into service. There is one in Junkersdorf that's been renovated. Here's a photo of the interior:
and here's a photo of the building:

One could perhaps say that for many centuries, the Bavarian people were rather spoiled. Most towns and villages had at least one brewery and part of the Bavarian Reinheitsgebot is that the beer should be of good quality.

At some point after 1990, commercial brewing replaced some of the communal breweries. While German beer is generally quite good, the commercial brewers  were perhaps abit of a disappointment after centuries of communal brewing. When I visited a Zoigl brewery in Mitterteich for the first time I was shocked at how full of customers it was.

Perhaps for older Bavarians who had grown used to the communal breweries, it was a bit disappointing to switch to a private commercial brewery. For younger Bavarians, I suspect they are the prime target of the new breweries making "craft" beer.

Some years ago, it was probably possible for a Bavarian to walk to his local communal brewery and buy a bottle of beer. Or there might be pubs in the village serving the communal brewed beer. Today that is rather rare.

Here is the abandoned communal brewery in Waischenfeld:

And here's a view of the remains inside the brewery:

I cannot say with dead certainty that the slow demise of communal brewing is the cause of commercial breweries closing in Bavaria. But it's as good a reason as any other. 

                                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Doug on  2018-10-07 07:12:16

Very good rundown.  Personally I see valid reasoning.

                                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-08 04:58:06

In the past, I wrote extensively on the communal brewhouse tradition, particularly in the Oberpfalz and, particularly in Windischeschenbach ('Eschawo') and Neuhaus, where I have spent many months over the last 10 years. I have got to know all the Zoigl brewers and spent many, many hours in the brew houses. I'm also the author of the authorised English-language introduction to Zoigl on the 'Echter Zoigl' website (  I stopped writing so much about Zoigl because, as some people pointed out, this is a site about Frankische beer! Introduction over!

There are several aspects of Herr (?) Berger's summary that I can comment on: firstly, the question of geography. You don't don't need high mountains to provide the kind of storage that the long lagering of slow fermenting beer requires.  There are no high mountains around any of the five Zoigl towns in the Oberpfalz (maybe the Steinwald?) and, in fact, in the past, the people of Eschawo and Neuhaus actually dug cellers to store the beer in - I know, I've been in them. There are lakes and ponds all over Germany and the use of ice from such sources is not unique to Bavaria or even Germany - it even happened in Britain!  As I understand it, summer brewing was not practiced because of the problem of cooling the wort in hot periods using only a the Kühlschiff and had little or nothing to do with fire hazards. 

I don't think that it is true that the communal brew houses were set up just 'so that the townspeople would have beer to drink', it was much more to do with control and taxation. For example, Eschawo, with a population of less than one thousand in the 15th century, had three brewhouses becauses the town was ruled by three different authorities, each one taxing and controlling production in their 'own' brew house. Incidentally, 'Zoiglbraurecht' (the laws controlling brewing Zoigl beer) were established well before the Reinheitsgebot, which, AFAIK, had no influence in the Zoigl towns.

The reason for the decline in communal brewing was really due to changes in the social structure of the Zoigl towns.  In previous times, the house brewers essentially brewed for themselves and only invited the neighbours in towards the end of the life of a batch of Zoigl, in order that it should not be wasted. AFAIK, most or all of the current Zoiglstube in Eschawo and Neuhaus, are relatively modern inventions, possibly with the exception of Zum Roud'n which was a farm and, historically, brewed beer for their workers.  As industry developed in the small towns and villages and people became factory workers and not self-employed craftsmen, so they had little time for house brewing. I think that the commercial breweries, which had developed through the improvement in brewing techniques in the 19th century, gradually took the place of the communal brewers.

As regards the contention that 'the slow demise of comunal brewing is the cause of commercial breweries closing in Bavaria', I can see no justification for this claim.  On the contrary, it might be argued that the rise of commercial breweries was due to the decline in communal brewing.  I feel that the demise of the commercial village brewery is due to other social and economic developments - too much to discuss in this contribution!

                                   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-08 08:46:53

Barry, while Zoigl is communally brewed, not all communally brewed beer is Zoigl. In the part of Franconia where Sesslach is, there are about 20 towns which have working communal breweries and, as far as I know, none of them call their beer Zoigl.

Have you even been to Reindl in Neuhaus a.d, Pegnitz? For reasons that I certianly don't understand,  the gemeinde decided to sell a working communal brewery to one of your countrymen as a residence. According to a waitress at Reindl, there was a second communal brewery, but it had never been renovated back into working order. Once the working communal brewery closed, the three (or is it four?) families that counted on it to supply  them with beer all had to look for a new supplier. They eventually found one in another village several kilometers from Neuhaus. I went back to Reindl (one of my favourite old standbys) and ordered a beer. It was nothing like what the communal brewry had supplied them with and was not very good. Some months after this experience I read that Reindl had closed for good. I imagine the other families that were supplied by the local communal brewery had to do the same.

All the information I posted come from German books and other documents  I have collected over the years. Little to none of it is based, on personal experience or observations.

                                     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-08 09:38:11

Hi, sorry don't know your first name to respond in a friendly fashion!

Yes, I know that it's not all Zoigl but I was only talking about the communal brewing area that I know.  AFAIK, Sesslach is the only place outside the Oberpfalz where the communal brewing tradtion is easily regularly accessible.  I have a list of the other communal breweries, kindly supplied by Gernot Wildung but have never managed to visit any because of the logisitical problems.  Like with so many other things, to really know about them takes a lot of detailed study and, as Echte Zoigl is the only really operating tradition outside of Sesslach, it's worth concentrating on. I would actually like to know more details about the way that things developed but I have a pretty good idea of the general outline.

My observations on Zoigl are based on a combination of personal experience (I have spent a lot of time there), talking with the Zoigl brewers (particularly in Eschawo/Neuhaus, where I think that I know most of them fairly well) and also with lots of Zoigl enthusiasts. I've spent a lot of time in the brew houses, specially Eschawo, and also read all (AFAIK) of the books and relevant documents on Zoigl (what a wasted life!) and also the history (very complex, all in German - and I'm no export on the language).  

The relationship between the commercial brewery in Eschawo (Wuerth) and the Zoigl brewers is quite complex and interesting: a sort of a mutual dependency!  

Sadly, I missed the Neuhaus kommunbrauerei by a couple of years and it is sad that the tradition should have been so wantonly squandered.


                                       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jason  on  2018-10-08 10:33:57

Especially the selling of a functioning communal brewery to an Brit. I hope the townsfolk made his life a misery, I certainly would have done my bit to do so. There is so much land to build houses I cannot understand how that happened. 

I hope beer in one of the Neuhaus concerns, Reindl I think, and it was very good. 

                                         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-08 11:09:58

Yes, it was very good. It was really sad that they had to find another brewer. I suspect the former communal brewery in Neuhaus had the receipe for making the town's beer. Once they switched to the other brewery, I guess the recipe had been lost.

                                         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  TomM on  2018-10-08 15:23:24

I don't why there should be so much hate towards this British fellow who turned a decrepit, anachronistic brewery into a nice home for himself and his family.

Why, I am currently in negotations to buy Spezial Keller and turn it into something truly "Special".

                                           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jason on  2018-10-08 22:33:28

Ha, well good luck getting that one built... I’ll be there at the front of the picket lines smiley

The view is fantastic of course, the beer (sometimes) and service and general management not so. 

                                             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-09 00:30:59

Sorry guys, but as far as I know the Neuhaus facts are a wee bit different than told here.

True is, that British douchebag bought the old Kommunbrauhaus, started to renovate it, threw out most of the interior, then quit and disappeared.

But then the Kommunbrauer(s) haven't used that building for years already. They were brewing at the former Falkenlochbräu, which still stands in a quite good overall condition but with a lot of machinery to repair. So the brewing families decided to get the wort from Bürgerbräu Hersbruck. But still they treat it like their own wort and finish the beer at home. 

I'm there quite often and can't see any loss of quality, honestly. It's still a prodigious brew!  

                                               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-09 00:46:26

I suppose that I'll just have to give it the once over!  Juergen???

                                                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-09 00:54:29

Aye, Barry. Of course! Whenever you want.

                                               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-09 01:34:35

Why would the Brit have to renovate a working brewery?

                                                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-09 02:23:49

Ooookay... old Kommunbrauerei, bought by that English bloke, derelict:

New Kommunbrauerei, former Falkenlochbräu, out of use:

Maybe that answers your question?

                                                   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-09 02:53:22

Yes, and here's a different prespective: "Rund um den Burgberg herum, in ihn hineingehauen, befinden sich 38 Keller. Einer davon ist heute noch für die Kommunbrauer in Betrieb: Drinnen ist alles hochmodern. Stahltanks, Alufässer, im Becken gärt das Bier, und Paul Reindl der Ältere kontrolliert mit dem Thermometer den Gärungsprozess. Doch zurück zu seinem Kommungasthaus."

Or this: 


Das Kommunbrauhaus

Weiter wurde auch das Rätsel um das Kommunbrauhaus gelöst. Das Haus unterhalb der Burg ist wirklich stillgelegt. Ein Privatmann hat es gekauft und wohnt jetzt darin. Er scheint ein Brite zu sein, denn alle sprachen nur vom „Engländer im Kommunbrauhaus“.


And finally, I had been to Reindl for many years (also with an outstanding kitchen, btw) and the beer, after the sale of the kommunbrauerei, tasted nothing like it had previously and was, sadly, much inferior to the old beer. I have never been back, as  my last visit there had been so disappointing.

                                                     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-09 03:11:24

No, that's not a different perspective. Of course the Keller is still working because the Kommuners get the WORT only from a brewery. The rest of the process is still done by the Kommuners.

The picture you show is the old Falkenlochbrauerei, which was taken out of use because of broken machinery. That's NOT the Kommunbrauhaus that was bought by the English guy. That's left derelict after that person has left.

And well, you should go back. The beer is great.

                                                       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-09 03:43:21

I drank it and the beer is far from great. And what you wrote is different from your last message. 

                                                         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-09 04:53:54

I can't follow you, I'm afraid?

                                                           Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-09 05:29:14

I have drunk beer at Reindl for many years. Before the change in breweries, the beer was great, as you said. After they changed breweries, it was no longer great, in fact it was not even good. Which is why I have not gone back there.

You said the British man who bought the kommunbrauerei was renovating it then threw away the equipement and left. The news article I posted  said what I have said all along: that he only lived there and did not tryt to renvovate the brewery. And the kommunbrauerei still seems to be working as the equipement is "highly modern."

                                                             Beer at Reindl by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-09 06:04:15

I've never been there but now I'm curious based on this discussion.  

Isn't it possible that when the first changed breweries that produced the wort that the beer was not good but they have since improved?  It may have just taken some time to get things sorted out.

If Juergen has been there fairly recently and says the beer was great I'd be very surprised if it was not.

I think Barry has got the right idea.  It may require a once over.


                                                               Beer at Reindl by  barry on  2018-10-09 09:24:39

I think that we've got the makings of a good day out here - just need to get ourselves together at the right time - the usual problem!

                                                                 Beer at Reindl by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-09 12:18:31

Indeed.  I'll know my schedule better come January but I envision three visits to Franken next year.  Spring, Summer, and Fall 

                                                                   Beer at Reindl by  Barry on  2018-10-10 01:14:01

I don't know how you fit work into your schedule!

We should be able to coordinate some visit(s), after all, I only have to fly 2 hours east - just a day trip for you.

                                                                     Beer at Reindl by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-10 03:33:16

It helps to be the boss.  I've created a company with a European holiday schedule instead of an American one.  It works just fine.  More companies should try it.

                                                                       Beer at Reindl by  barry on  2018-10-10 04:42:12

Fair play to you, Mark; really unusual for US-companies. Goodness knows what will happen in the UK if we leave the EU. Fortunately, holiday provision won't affect me, only losing access rights, free medical care, etc., etc., etc.


                                                                         Beer at Reindl by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 03:50:00

There are many thousands of us working hard to sabotage brexit. The end game is close. :)

                                                             Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-09 07:21:39

Here's what I wrote:
True is, that British douchebag bought the old Kommunbrauhaus, started to renovate it, threw out most of the interior, then quit and disappeared.

I never said he finished any renovation. Well, if you say he didn't even start to renovate it, you may be right. 
And NO! Not the whole Kommunbrauerei is working. Just the Gärkeller is working. The wort is brought to Neuhaus, then finished at the Gärkeller, which might be of modern appearance. Don't know, I've never been inside. 
Possible though, that the three remaining brewing families started to brew again at the experimental brewery of Kaiser. But that's just a hypothesis. 

And if I say the beer is great, it's just my personal taste. It's always a matter of taste. For me it's in the same league as the beers from Nankendorf, Spielbach, Schlammersdorf (b. Forchheim), Pferdsfeld, Hetzelsdorf, Sesslach, Heilgersdorf, Leups, Gnodstadt and so on. Just to give you a hint of my personal taste. 

Cheers, I'm off to Gnodstadt right now!

                                                               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-09 08:27:20

Jürgen, what you wrote originally (which you've kindly quoted above) is without any evidence. I have posted sections of news reports that disagree with your story. In find it strange that I can find no news report that confirms your story of what happened.

But, OK, it is possible that I drank Reindl's beer on a bad day. I will go back and try it again, although I don't know when. I also like beer from Sesslach, Heilgersdorf, Leups and Schammelsdorf and Huppendorf.


                                                               Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-11 00:45:53

Jürgen, I posted this in another thread, perhaps you did not see it. There is indeed public transport to Spielbach. Here is the bus schedule:

                                                                 Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-11 01:06:25

Thanks M., that might be useful for the tourists. I'll still drive my car. ;-)

                                                                   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-11 04:37:12

It's not even useful for tourists.  As I understand it the brewery in Spielbach doen't open until 16:00pm Monday thru Friday and the last bus stops there at 17:57 and forget about Saturday.  Really it's not worth the effort to just be able to sit down there for an hour to hour and a half.  Spielbach is a place that one should stay for a long time.


                                                                     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-11 06:01:59

I'm not sure I understand this. Assuming you are correct about the opening time of 16.00, there is a bus that arrives there at16.30. How is that a problem? Secondly, there are two buses on Saturday one at 12.26. Also on Saturday there is a Rufbus (you have to call them to reserve a seat) #0900 and that stops at Spielbach at 1726 on Saturday. The 1020 bus also makes a connection with Bus 101 from Rothenburg. This seems particularly handy for tourists who prefer to spend the night in Rothenburg.

Return. Use Rufbus 0900which leaves Spielbach at 20.28 or if you want to stay even longer, there's another bus at 0.14. I'm sure you could ask the staff at the pub to call the bus if you would rather not do it yourself.

                                                                       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-11 08:13:00

I was looking only at the bus schedule that you posted and unless I'm reading it wrong it appears the last pickup would be 17:57.  Hardly ideal if you arrving at 16:30.  Not enough time to really enjoy the place and the beer.  But you have mentioned there is a later bus (Rufbus) so I guess if one was staying it Rothenburg it could work.


                                                                   Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-11 06:04:08

Jürgen would you happen to know if Spielbach now serves a warm meal on Saturday? Last time I was there they told me it was only on Sunday. Thanks.

                                                                     Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-10-11 06:28:45

Opening times: 6 p.m. on weekdays, not 4 p. m. 
Normally warm food on Sundays only but sometimes also on Friday night and Saturday. Why? I've no clue. Maybe depending on who's available for the kitchen.
Always warm food on special occasions, e.g. there's a marriage or something in the house. 

                                                                       Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  M. Berger on  2018-10-11 07:17:08

I prefer a café to a kneipe.

                                                                         Kitzmann, Erlangen closes by  barry on  2018-10-11 09:44:36

Hi Chaps Can i suggest the we move on from this heading topic - it's been a long time since this discussion had anything to do with Kitzmann.

By all means, if you want to talk about Spielbach or Neuhaus, carry on, as they are interesting topics in themselves, but do it under appropriate headings.  Just think, if we wanted to advise a new colleague on reading about how to get to Speilbach, it would be virtually impossible - what do we say, find Kitzmann and work your way through all the non-relevant postings?

                                                                           Spielbach by  Mark Andersen on  2018-10-11 11:29:22

Yeah I'm not sure how this all wound up in a Spielbach tangent but it probably should have just had it's own thread.

 New hotel in Bamberg by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-09-24 11:27:58

completion: 2020/2021
120 rooms
low buget, b&b
Location; Hartmannstraße/ edge Starkenfeldstraße
650 meters east of Café Abseits
article in German:;art212,3711252

   New hotel in Bamberg by  Jason  on  2018-09-25 00:44:48

Enough already. 

 another closure by  gavin on  2018-09-24 03:08:04

looks like another place has bit the dust . such a shame

   another closure by  Jason on  2018-09-24 04:13:44

Just to clarify, unless I’ve missed something, this refers to the pub only, not the brewery. 

Not or saying it’s less of a shame. 

     another closure by  Gavin tierney on  2018-09-24 04:21:20

Sorry, yes just the inn , always found it cozy and welcoming

       another closure by  Jason on  2018-09-24 04:38:27

I’ve ridden past many times, not stopped, no real reason but always found the beer average until recently when I have enjoyed a few visits to the Keller and the beer was good (maybe it always was). 

I guess the pub could reopen in the future if they have a change of heart or a find a new tenant. It’s the only pub in the town so surely someone can make a go of it... 

Barry, pack your bags and get behind the bar! 

         another closure by  TreinJan on  2018-09-24 05:58:09

A few years back the Gasthof also was without a tenant for something like a year, iirc

           another closure by  Jason  on  2018-09-24 06:30:10


             another closure by  Barry on  2018-09-24 09:41:37

Slightly longer, I think but, no matter, it's a tragedy!  Really nice family running the place, very friendly.  But I couldn't see how it was going to survive.  I asked the young son (he was always wanting to practice his English) about the business and he said that people used to come from Staffelstein because it was the nearest place where you could get proper German food.  Don't know about that but, if true, it seems that maybe not enough people want to eat proper German food!

Anyway, it's a real shame, not the least because it is right opposite my Fewo!  But the beer was good and Dave Greenlee had a meal and he said that it was ok.  The Keller serves (not surprisingly) Kellerbier, which the Schwann didn't (Helles und Dunkles).  I'll probably still stay in Ebensfeld because its conveneint for lots of places.

Ok Jason, I'll add it to the list of pubs that I'm going to take over. 

               another closure by  M. Berger on  2018-09-26 03:05:39

Bavaria has been losing breweries for years. As breweries close, so do pubs. While the other German states have gained breweries, Bavaria has been losing them: between 1993 and 2017, Bavaria lost 126 breweries. As late as 1990, there were still a significant number of communal breweries in Bavaria. Most have since closed. While some have been renovated and put back into service, very few of them support or  are supported by pubs. I was in Unfinden for a festival celebrating the renovated communal brewery and speaking with the people there, I found the only ones who benefited from the brewery are members of  the club that renovated it. Sesslach is the only town I know where the  communal brewery has been renovated and the beer distributed to several local pubs as well as the townfolk. The communal brewery in Sesslach used to have it's own communal pub, but that's been converted by the town into a  tourist information office.

There is in Waischenfeld the remains of the old communal brewery (IIRC, it's across the street from Heckel Bräu). Apparently no one is  interested in renovating it. As I recall, the old brewery has large windows and it's easy to look inside at  the remains. I'm positive that Waischenfeld is  not the only town in this situation.

                 another closure by  Barm on  2018-09-26 04:02:48

This is desperately sad.
I have complained before that it would be much better if young go-ahead brewers took over these old family breweries rather than making bad copies of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. There are exceptions of course, like Urban Chestnut in Wolnzach, but they are few and far between.

               another closure by  Jason on  2018-09-26 10:00:47

Just FYI, Brauerei Eichhorn has opened a fewo opposite. I’m not sure there’s a better location if you want to have a great local opposite plus ease of transport into Bamberg or the train line. It’s online if you want to check it out, under their brewery website. 

                 another closure by  Barry on  2018-09-26 12:29:10

Don't want to dampen your enthusiasm for all things Eichorn but Doerfleins is not great for public transport into Bamberg. I've stayed in Doerfleins (and Hallstadt) and the bus service from Bamberg is ok - unless you want to stay out after 7 pm!  The last 904 from ZOB is 1908, after that, it's the ALT service.

There are later trains but it's not a five minute walk from Doerfleins to Bhf Hallstadt.  Although comparatively aged, I'm a reasonably quick walker and it took me around 20 minutes from Eichorn to the station - and I know the shortcuts etc.  I've researched the railline for Fewo's pretty thoroughly in both directions from Bamberg over the years and stopped staying in Doerfleins (where we had a lovely Fewo) because of this problem.  This is not to say don't stay in Doerfleins, just to point out the facts.  On the website, the Fewo looks very nice but I can't see any mention of the price and I suspect that it's not going to be cheap - in general, Hallstadt isn't.

Incidentally, when I opened the Eichorn website, I was redirected to the website for Brauerausch, which is a collaboration with Wagner, Kemmern (both excellent breweries).  Very snazzy production (Miss Binz was rather different from the usual run of Doerfleins and Kemmern Kellnerin!).  Has anyone (Jason?) tried this beer, which sounds more like a contemporary British or American concept - at least in its marketing?

                   another closure by  Mosquit on  2018-09-27 00:47:19

ALT in area of Bamberg is actually very good service, so why not to use it? No extra fee, you just need to call one hour in advance... I have called many times and always the call center operator was able to speak english quite well... 

                     another closure by  Barry on  2018-09-27 01:49:34

I didn't say that it was a bad service, only that it was the only service! I've never used it and all the reports say that it works quite well. However, it is a bit different from simply turning up for a scheduled bus.

                       another closure by  Jason  on  2018-09-27 02:01:20

Well to me the 20 minute walk to the Bahnhof / centre of Hallstadt for the bus is no hardship, particularly as I'd prefer to drink in Doerfleins than, well, most places. The Kellerbier (from the keg, rather than tanks) was outstanding yesterday and accompanied me well on a good evening of Schafkopf wins. That aside, as you now have no options for drinking beer in Ebensfeld your nearest option is Unterneuses, Pferdsfeld or, in season, the Keller. None of which are an easy walk or possible with public transport to my knowledge. 

As for prices, well it's probably not viable anyway as it's for 4 people and newly refurbished so it won't be cheaper than Ebensfeld, though price isn't the only consideration. 

I tried the Rausch and it's fine. Can't remember much else. Prefer Eichhorn above Wagner considerably so I'd rather stick to the latter. 

                         another closure by  Barry on  2018-09-27 03:37:45

You're a young fit lad - my comments were made for those who aren't in football training.

No argument about Eichorn beer, it's excellent and has improved greatly (IMHO) since we holidayed in Doerflein a few years ago.  It also seems a much more popular and friendly pub than it did then but maybe we just weren't used to quaint traditions ,like unscheduled closing and shutting early because Bayern were on the tely.  All part of the charm of Frankische life, I suppose.  I'm certainly not saying don't go!

Don't rub it in about the Schwann, I'm still recovering from the news, though, in truth, I didn't go in that often; funilly enough, it was usual when I had visitors.  The Keller is about an easy and delightful ten minute stroll from the centre of downtown Ebensfeld and Martin is not a lot more.  Yes, all the other localish places are a bit of a stretch but there are plenty of them, whereas, apart from Kemmern, nothing is so easy from Doerfleins (apart from the insect-ridden but lovely Diller Keller and, possibly, the Goldene Loewven - if it's still open.  Oh yes, there's also a Faessla, which might appeal?)..

But the the other main attraction of Ebensfeld is that you are only five minutes from the Bahnhof and all the wondrous places that the Deutsche Bahn can reveal - especailly with a month's ticket!


                           another closure by  Jason on  2018-09-27 04:06:09

But in doerfleins you’re 20 minute walk from the same train line, close to Bamberg too, and there are day buses into the city from doerfleins. I know you’re not big on Bamberg these days but it’s an option. If you come in April and the Keller isn’t open then Martin is your only local choice that’s not too far. The beer’s ok but I wouldn’t see it as my local. And it shuts on Sunday I think. 

Long story short it’s about personal preference, but I’m not sure you can justify staying in Ebensfeld aside from your personal preference. To you of course, that is quite rightly all that matters. 

                             another closure by  Mark Andersen on  2018-09-27 04:43:12

Just stay in Bamberg.  All problems will thus be solved.  I know, not Barry's preference and it may be my age but I would think I'd get completely bored in Ebensfeld after a day or two.

                               another closure by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-09-27 05:57:36

I'd never get bored staying in a tent at Spielbach for a fortnight. With no public transport at all... ;-)

                                 another closure by  Barry on  2018-09-27 06:07:54

Hee ... Hee!

I think that we've just about exhausted this - all grist to the mill and really useful information from residents and regular visitors.

P.S. I still love Bamberg as a place and can understand the attraction of living there.

                                 another closure by  Mark Andersen on  2018-09-27 06:42:59


Hell I'd sleep on a pile of hay in their barn if they'd let me.

                                   another closure by  Jason  on  2018-09-28 00:57:26

Practically luxurious. Doubt you'd get a better night's sleet in your life!!

                                 another closure by  M. Berger on  2018-09-28 09:22:39

Actually, that's not entirely true.

It leaves from Schrozberg, which has a train connection with Nuremberg, though not particularly convenient. Nuremberg-Crailsheim is far better and it's a short ride from Crailsheim to Schrozberg. The bus runs Monday-Saturday. No service on Sunday, though there may be alternatives.

                                   Rufbus schedule for Spielbach by  M. Berger on  2018-10-11 11:34:07

If you or someone calls for you, the call should be placed at one hour before the bus arrival. 

                   another closure by  Barm on  2018-09-27 04:52:49

I think 7pm is a perfectly reasonable time to call it a night, if you’re going to be up at 6 again so you’re ready to start drinking at 9 like the locals. Adjust to the rhythm of Franken.


                     another closure by  Barry on  2018-09-27 12:50:00

Er ... no.  That's not my idea of any kind of holiday.  Calling it a day at 7 pm - I can tell you're not Irish, in the 15 years that i lived there, I hardly went out before 10.00 pm.  Even in the Uk, I don't go out much before 9 pm, excpet on the occasional afternoon jaunts.  Sober up!

Anyway, how many Franken pubs open at 9 - everyday?  I'll let you do the legwork but, in my experience, not that many outside the bigger towns and cities.

 Brauerei Weber, Röbersdorf by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-09-24 00:03:15

The website Braufranken says, Weber closed in May 2017; the beer comes from Rittmayer, Hallerndorf, as a Lohnsud now. 

   Brauerei Weber, Röbersdorf by  Barry on  2018-09-24 01:30:55

That's another sad blow. The place was a bit quirky but I really enjoyed the beer when we visited a few years ago.

     Brauerei Weber, Röbersdorf by  Jason  on  2018-09-24 02:40:29

Not one I visited often (twice ever I think). I'm really not a fan of all this contract brewing. People in Schesslitz stll think that Schmitt-Bräu is brewed by the brewery which has been closed for a few decades. 

It makes a hard decision much easier and means the public don't necessarily know that the beer is no longer brewed on the premises. Then they don't realise how many breweries are closing. 

       Brauerei Weber, Röbersdorf by  Carl on  2018-09-25 07:21:11

In April 2018, my group got a tour of Weber (by Stephan?), and were told they had hired a brewer, and he was due there "soon". We enjoyed the beer there, wherever it came from.

   Brauerei Weber, Röbersdorf - and other tidbits by  Mark Andersen on  2018-09-24 07:36:17

According to the below website this is due to the death of the owner.  

There seems to be a lot more updating of this site this year.

Also mentioned on here are that Fischer in Greuth no longer brews, Wagner in Oberhaid is being renovated (new owners perhaps?), and the sons of Beim Gloser in Eschawo have opened their own brewery.

     Brauerei Weber, Röbersdorf - and other tidbits by  Jason  on  2018-09-24 08:22:11

Fischer in Greuth is not news to me, and I knew that the owner of Weber had passed. I also recently heard about Wagner. Not about Beim Gloser though. 

Agree it seems a good source of news. 

       Brauerei Weber, Röbersdorf - and other tidbits by  Barry on  2018-09-24 09:49:59

Sorry, that news was included in my not reporting my visit to Eschawo in detail!

Yes, young Moritz has bought a former inductrial brewing plant a few kilometres from Eschawo.  Apparently, it has a pretty big brewing capacity and he intends to brew craft beers!  Well, well.  But, I suppose that he fits the profile being young and interested in brewing (he is a Braumeister having served his time at Gambrinus in Weiden - must remember to ask him about the lack of draught beer in the tap next time I see him!).

He is also 'going steady' (maybe actually engaged) and, given all the circumstances (his current non-brewing job involves a lot of travelling), I suppose that he wants to branch out.  I suppose that he'll keep brewing for his dad and maybe stop experimenting with the Zoigl!

 Bockzeit by  Mads on  2018-09-22 12:05:16

Hey everyone

Going back to wonderland in a month or 2. I really hope to try heller bocks from
hölzlein, Roppelt Stiebarlimbach and Knoblach. Do Any of you guys know If they are released before december 1st or After?
cheers and Danke.

   Bockzeit by  Jason  on  2018-09-23 04:05:54

     Bockzeit by  M. Berger on  2018-09-24 03:41:54

Or this one:

 Ot: Do not forsake me ... by  Barry on  2018-09-14 03:14:11

No, I haven't but I think everyone has heard enough of Eschawo to last more than a lifetime!
Just to say that I had a lovely 10 days, as usual, and was pleased to welcome one of our resident Bamburg correspondents for a day. Sad to say that the Eschawo Zoiglstub'n put on a really poor show, with almost undrinkable beer (it was really undrinkable but I forced it down as a token of good will). Fortunately, the Zoigl in Lingl Neuhaus was excellent - good enough for Jason to take two litres back home. Talk about carrying coals, etc.

I'm now in beautiful Prague being guided by Fred's very handy, and comprehensive, guide. Rather than go off-topic anymore, if you are really desperate, you can read all about my time here on my FB page, complete with pictures, now that i've just about got the hang of it.

Only to say that it's great. Thanks to Jason for encouraging me to make the short trip and to Fred for his guide!

   Ot: Do not forsake me ... by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 04:38:08

Something that you might be interested in another year if you enjoyed Prague, AND might fit in with Zoigl country (no idea whether the transport links work but geographically close). The Sun in the Glass Beer Festival in Plzen.

You can stay at Purkmistr (hosts of the beer festival) which is itself a brewery/restaurant/hotel/beer spa.

 Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  David on  2018-09-12 14:28:03

Hi Boys. I hope Life is treating you good. A buddy and I will be in Bamberg the second week of October. We are visiting Nurnberg for a day. There appears to be many places to have a bier. Can one of you guys reccommend a nice place to drink with a good selection of biers and a nice local atmosphere? Thanks/ Danke David

   Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  Jason  on  2018-09-13 01:43:14

As an extremely rare visitor to Nuremberg in spite of it's proximity, I'm not super enthusiastic about it as a beer destination. The obvious breweries and highlights you'll find on ratebeer. My recommendations would be schanzenbrau and cafe wanderer. 

If you're there to see the city and sights, go for it. Otherwise there are much better destinations in the area where you will get a better beer experience (Forchheim for instance). 

     Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-09-13 04:29:53

I recommend the three locations closed to each other and close to the Burg (castle), worth a look)::

Café Wanderer / Bieramt, nice seats outside

Hütt'n, a beer restaurant with a nice selection of beers, the most beers from Mid Franconia

Altstadthof, a brewery with destillery (p.e. whiskys)
Their onlineshop five an impression of their producs:

If You want to taste regional craft beers:
Kater Murr (near the railway station)

Mr. Kennedy, a pub. The owner with this name; is an American who has studied brewing technology in Munich. Together with an american friend, also brewmaster, he has founded a brewery brand NBG (New Beer Generation). They use contract breweries (Binkert in Breitengüßbah.

       Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  Barm on  2018-09-13 06:37:24

I can second Mr Kennedy – it has everything David is looking for: nice atmosphere, good beer, central location. It feels like a local pub, not a "craft beer bar”.

         Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  Steve T on  2018-09-16 12:10:22

In my experience, Altstadthof can be very hit and miss.

Balkon is always worth a quick visit before or after your train. Next to the Frauentorturm, opposite the Hbf. It's outdoor and operates on a similar principle to the bierkellers but is usually open all day in spring, summer and early autumn even if it's raining. Nikl Bräu beers amongst others.

Barfüßer is really only worth it if you want to tick breweries.

Although it does feel like a 'craft beer bar', Bierwerk is well worth a look. It's the tap for little-known Bierwerk brewery in Günthersbühl, most of whose beers are made by Dreykorn, but the Werkbier is brewed in house. They sell plenty of other beer, too, including Honig Bräu (Nürnberg, not Hönig Tiefenellern) when I visited last month.

I'm not a massive fan of Hütt'n (too touristy) but it has a reasonable range of beers, sometimes including their own Burgbräu.

Kater Murr is handy for the Hbf and good for Orca beers.

Landbierparadies solid but mostly bottles - go for the draught beer from the wood.

As stated, Mr Kennedy is very good but only opens from 20.00 Wednesday to Saturday. The owner brews his special beers in the pub kitchen using a Braumeister but the regular stuff (Der Franke) is made elsewhere (Binkert, I think).

Schanzenbräu Schankwirtschaft is very good.

Cafe Wanderer is excellent but tiny. Go when dry as you can then sit outside and admire the view.

     Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  John Ratcliffe on  2018-09-13 08:56:51

Second vote for Schanzenbrau. Lovely garden, good beer and a nice bohemian vibe.

       Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  Jürgen Wening on  2018-09-14 00:19:50

Aye, Schanzenbräu. Go as long as the weather's good enough to visit the garden. Inside it's nice enough, too.

     Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  David on  2018-09-14 02:27:20

Thanks guys. I come up from Boston every 6 months or so. The truth is I was not overly impressed with the lack of breweries for such a big place. I'd much rather be at Brauerei Hummel for a bit!

       Nurnberg Pubs and Braustuberl by  Barry on  2018-09-14 02:58:12

I'd third (or fourth) Schanzi - the three beers are good, it's fairly handy for the hbhf and has a nice atmosphere.
Hutt'n is a vague shadow of the days when it was just below the Schloss and, nowadays, well matches the Altstadtbier place opposite as a tourist delight. The late lamented Nick took me to a couple of Landbierparadies once - I wasn't too impressed with the quality. More parody than paradise.
Don't know Wanderer but it and Mr Kennedy's sound worth a look, if I'm ever in Nuernburg long enough.

 Upcoming Beer Trip... by  FredW on  2018-09-07 21:29:48

When a group of us when to our first Uerige Sticke day in 1998 we had no idea that 20 years later we'd still be going.

So in case we are crossing paths with anybody, the schedule is

Prague, Oct 4-11
Bamberg, Oct 11-15
Düsseldorf, Oct 15-18
Antwerp, Oct 18-22
Amsterdam, Oct 22-25

   Upcoming Beer Trip... by  Jason on  2018-09-08 05:01:30

Funnily enough I’ll be in Prague Friday and Saturday with my parents. Obviously will be in Bamberg 11-15. 

 Weissbierhaus closing by  Barm on  2018-09-02 11:59:41

I’ve just learnt that apparently the Weissbierhaus (formerly Maisel’s brewery tap) is closing.

   Weissbierhaus closing by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-09-03 09:24:47

When I first started coming to Bamberg in the early 90s, we used to stay there, quite pleasant. Last time I went in I had the worst beer Ive ever had in Franconia, a seidla of Mahrs U which tasted like last week's waahing up water.

     Weissbierhaus closing by  Jason  on  2018-09-03 11:40:20

I'll have a look next time i'm passing. I've never actually been in. I'm not sure why. It's different here than in the UK, the pubs/brewery taverns are pretty samey to a certain extent, no real character outside of the obvious examples. And when you live in a city with some notable examples anything else is superfluous. 

I've heard it has a nice outside drinking area, but so does Spezi and Schlenkerla. Keesmann and Mahrs. Greifenklau. The Kellers. 

Guess there's the answer. 

       Weissbierhaus closing by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 04:47:59

And, of course, if you're in the central area Sternla is an excellent alternative.

   Weissbierhaus closing by  FredW on  2018-09-03 14:09:47

I think I've only been in once since Maisel stopped brewing. Used to stop in most trips to have a Maisel (liked their dunkel). Afterwards, there didn't seem to be much reason for a visit.

Friends have stayed at the hotel -- said the rooms were very basic but clean and staff friendly. With the shortage of hotel beds in Bambeg I have to beleive somebody will at least pick up the hotel part...

     Weissbierhaus closing by  JohnRatcliffe on  2018-09-04 00:04:39

Rooms were pleasant, but basic. Toilet was outside, which meant going out onto the balcony and walking a few doors down. Not ideal in February. 
Would have thought it could be a goingconcern if someone has the time and money to renovate.

       Weissbierhaus closing by  Jason  on  2018-09-04 01:43:18

I think it needs to be clarified firstly if it is closing. I'm not sure where Barm got his info. 

         Weissbierhaus closing by  Barm on  2018-09-04 06:11:38

It was on one of the local Bamberg Facebook groups. Cannot guarantee accuracy.

           Weissbierhaus closing by  Barm on  2018-10-08 13:03:55

Confirmation in the FT:;art212,3748864

The operators have no successor and they can’t find staff, apparently. The chef retired and they can’t get a replacement.

I have heard this complaint many times – are hospitality jobs in Germany really so unattractive?

It would be a shame if the nice wood panelled interior were to be lost to modernisation.

             Weissbierhaus closing by  AndyH on  2018-12-05 06:13:12

Sometimes I really wish I'd moved to Bamberg in 2008.

 Podge R.I.P. by  Mat Wilson on  2018-08-22 09:40:48

I'm sure a few of you cross borders and drink the occasional beer. 
It has been a sad week for us, with the announcement of the death of the Belgian beer stalwart, Chris Pollard, known to one and all as Podge.
Anyone who has been to any of the major Belgian beer festival will be familiar with the whirlwind of noise and colour that was Podge, as he arrived on his whistle stop tour of the fest before moving the  group all on to the next obscure Flemish or Walloonian cafe of bar.
He was one of those characters you meet as you go through life, who was utterly charming, and you couldn't help but be taken in by his enthusiasm for all things Belgian, be it Beers or Battlefields. I never got to go on one of his legendty Beer Tours, but I ran in to him on a regular basis all over the place. 
My sympathy goes out to Siobhan, his partner and everyone who knew him better than I did. We have lost an absolute legend this week. Rest in Peace Podge. I'll be raising a glass to you tonight.


 36 Kreisla -- Bamberg Landkreisbier by  BrianW on  2018-08-17 10:42:14

Someone just posted about this on the Beer Advocate message board.  I had never heard of it before and I couldn't find it in the archives here, but it looks like it is an annual beer collaboration between different breweries in the Bamberg Landkreis:

The only details I know are that the three breweries collaborating this year are Brauerei Ott, Brauerei Huebner and Brauerei Aichinger and the release date is September 30 and they are brewing a Kellerbier.  Has anyone tried any of the past collaborations? Sounds like it could be worth seeking out.

   36 Kreisla -- Bamberg Landkreisbier by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-08-18 04:26:15

The idea comes from the district administrator (Landrat) of the Landkreis Bamberg (the surroundings of Bamberg). The idea is to find 3 breweries which brew together (in one of these breweries) a "Landkreis Bier". The name "36 Kreisla" refers to the 36 administration villages of the Landkreis Bamberg. We have more small villages, but they are summarizend to administration units with only one major. P.e. administration unit: Memmelsdorf with the villages Memmelsdorf, Merkendorf, Drosendorf, Kremmeldorf. Laubend, Lichteneiche,
Meedensdorf, Schmerldorf and Weichendorf.

Each year since 2015 three different breweries have brewed different beers and different styles. They are only available in this 3 breweries. Sometimes they have brewed  further issues.

The 2018 edition will be a not filtered Kellerbier, brewed by the
Aichinger, Heiligenstadt i. OFr.,
Hübner, Steinfeld 
Ott, Oberleinleiter,
The "Anstich" party will be on the: 30 September 2018 in the Bauernmuseum in Frensdorf. After this event You have to visit one of these breweries to taste it. I don't know if they will fill it in bottles. In the last years the 36Kreisla was available also in bottles, but only sold in the brewpubs.

     36 Kreisla -- Bamberg Landkreisbier by  Jason  on  2018-08-19 03:10:40

3 breweries all in the Fraenkischer Schweiz and the anstich is in Frensdorf.

I think what would be more interesting is if they revived an old recipe or something. Not necessarily from the breweries involved. But I guess none of these breweries have a kellerbier so maybe that's the extent of the innovation. 

       36 Kreisla -- Bamberg Landkreisbier by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-08-19 05:12:24

The Bauernmuseum Bamberger Land in Frensdorf is in the ownerschip of the Landkreis Bamberg. So the Landkreis can use his own building. It is also a nice place for such events with a room for 140 guests, p.e. invited journalists and VIPs..

The individual breweries can organize their own beer taps in their brewery restaurants.

But I agree that the beers have been traditional - not to say boring - in the last years.
Only a special edition in the year 2016 (Binkert, Hertl, Sauer Rossdorf) was a little bit different: a dry hopped bock. It was a second beer in the year 2016 because of  the purity law (500 years jubilee)..


         36 Kreisla -- Bamberg Landkreisbier by  Jason on  2018-08-19 11:21:03

No, not to say boring. I certainly don’t need a dry hopped bock. Just something in between. 

I was in a brewery in Prague the other day that had a beer on bayerischer Anstich which was called Ur Brau 1560. The beer was brewed to a recipe from that year, without hops and with flowers and herbs (from what my limited Czech could tell me). I could only drink a small glass, it was more interesting than good. 

Not or calling for such extremes, but I hope for more from 3 good breweries - perhaps that Kellerbier will be excellent, we’ll see. Would love to try something like fullers past masters series where they recreated everything from old recipes, including kilning brown malt for their outstanding brown stout. Of course that’s expensive. 

           36 Kreisla -- Bamberg Landkreisbier by  Barm on  2018-09-07 02:59:54

I wouldn’t mind a dry hopped bock. It would be preferable to another "Bavarian IPA".

             36 Kreisla -- Bamberg Landkreisbier by  Jason on  2018-09-08 03:22:58

Not sure why you would have to drink either in Franconia. I get by perfectly well without drinking an ipa. 

 Major fire at Weyermann by  FredW on  2018-08-09 07:33:34

Malthouse Weyermann in Bamberg in flames: Forces fight for hours against the fire

More info here

   Major fire at Weyermann by  Jason  on  2018-08-10 02:07:09

A bearded man wearing a metal band hoodie was reportedly witnessed escaping the scene laughing hysterically... 

 Kulmbacher Bier Woche by  Jason on  2018-08-05 13:01:05

I found myself in Kulmbach today on a bike trip round a few breweries and ending in kronach. I actually had no idea the Bier Woche was taking place. For anyone who has a desire to go, I would caution against it from a beer perspective. As expected totally dominated by Kulmbacher beer, whether eku, moenschhof or Kapuziner. I had a seidla of monschhof zoigl, hoping naively for something remotely interesting. Bland and boring was all I got. It was very Bavarian in feel, big tent with a band stand and Maß servings. Strange. Not sure why this place takes so much pride in its brewing status. 

I do recommend kronach though, both as a very attractive walled town with a castle and as a beer destination. Entla is a modern brewery with, not yet open when I last visited back in 2009. They had ipa, stout and pale ale on draft alongside more typical fayre and has a very nice courtyard garden. Kaiserhof is more traditional and has an excellent Kellerbier. 50 minutes from Bamberg and worth a visit. 

   Kulmbacher Bier Woche by  TomM on  2018-08-05 16:16:51

Thanks for the report. Never had an urge to go to Kulmbach, but Kronach was in my sights if I ever get back to Franken.

As far as Kulmbach's brewing status, I guess it has to do with former numbers of breweries and present day volume. The Kulmbacher Brauerei is the biggest in Franken, isn't it?

     Kulmbacher Bier Woche by  Gerhard Schoolmann on  2018-08-05 23:48:36

The Kulmbacher brewery group sells 1.68 million hl per year.
and the brands of Kulmbacher (Mönchshof, EKU, Kulmbacher, Kapuziner, Würzburger Hofbräu, Scherdel)

The majority of the shares belongs to the Schörghuber Group.30% of  the Schörghuber group are in the ownership of Heineken.
Thurn + Taxis
Weißbierbrauerei Miesbach

Maybe Tucher in middle Franconia is bigger. They don't publish how many hl they brew.
Tucher belongs to the Radeberger Group and is part of Dr. Oetker (pizza, feed etc.). Brands of Tucher
  • Grüner
  • Humbser
  • Losunger
  • Patrizier
  • Sebaldus Weizen
  • Siechen
  • Tucher
  • Zirndorfer
  • Falkenfelser


       Kulmbacher Bier Woche by  barry on  2018-08-06 03:19:25

Thanks Gerhard, that's a useful list of products to avoid!

The way that products from these 'labels' flood mosts Trinkmarkt is really noticeable and I suppose is the reason that most people in Franken drink this stuff.  And, of course, it's very cheap, even by Franken standards.  And probably tastes ok to the non-discerning drinker - sorry to sound like a beer snob! 


You can start a new discussion topic below...
The value is required.
The value is required. Must be an email address.
The value is required.